Worth an independent survey?

[Escort3500]

Hi all

I’m thinking of buying a classic car, and am looking at one next week at a dealer’s. Having owned an example of this model before I’ve a reasonably good idea what to look for in terms of bodywork/underside problems and generally what to check out mechanically.

It’s up for £12k and I’m wondering - if it checks out OK to my amateur mind - whether to spend a few bob getting someone with more expertise to assess it before I commit.

I’ve never had one done before for a potential purchase so don’t know (assuming it’s worth having one) whether to go for a general one (eg AA/RAC) or a more specialised one.

Any advice would be much appreciated. The car’s at a midlands-based classic car dealership so any recommendations as regards a specialist assessor (if appropriate) in the area would also be helpful. Thanks.

[av185]

Read the JD Classics thread and you will find the answer very quickly.

[Doofus]

av185 said:

Read the JD Classics thread and you will find the answer very quickly.

Not entirely the same market sector, are they?

I've spent way more than that in the past from classic dealers, even in other countries. Do your due diligence, get an inspection if you feel it would be worthwhile, and don't be swayed by the assumption that everyone is a crook

[GoodOlBoy]

Perhaps if you let us know the make and model you will receive some more specific advice.

[Norfolkandchance]

I had one done once, on a fairly exotic car (exotic to me, anyway) and it really gave me confidence. I actually agreed a price with the dealer over the phone and paid a deposit, subject to a good inspection. It would have taken half a day and £40 in fuel to go and see it, so it saved me a job. The inspector phoned and said "give the man the money". So I picked it up the next weekend. Unseen.

Was the best car I ever owned.

The dealer was amazed how thorough the inspector had been - lying underneath in puddles and removing shields and carpets. Undoubtedly a better job than I would have done.

[av185]

Doofus said:

av185 said:

Read the JD Classics thread and you will find the answer very quickly.

Not entirely the same market sector, are they?

I've spent way more than that in the past from classic dealers, even in other countries. Do your due diligence, get an inspection if you feel it would be worthwhile, and don't be swayed by the assumption that everyone is a crook

The principle is the same irrespective of the cars price.

If you do not know what you are buying 100% it is easy to end up with something you regret.

Many traps for the unwary even through highly respected outlets. E.g. Porsche OPCs selling non UK non c16 cars including GT3s and RS. Turned one down the other week. £200k+ car. That car will sell and probably to someone who does not realise the reality.

[george123]

I used this guy a few years ago, emailed a very through written assessment within a day or so.

Was around 2011/2012 and he charged around £250/300 I think...was money well spent.

http://www.classicassessments.com/

[george123]

I used this guy a few years ago, emailed a very through written assessment within a day or so.

Was around 2011/2012 and he charged around £250/300 I think...was money well spent.

http://www.classicassessments.com/

[GoodOlBoy]

av185 said:

The principle is the same irrespective of the cars price.

If you do not know what you are buying 100% it is easy to end up with something you regret.

Many traps for the unwary even through highly respected outlets. E.g. Porsche OPCs selling non UK non c16 cars including GT3s and RS. Turned one down the other week. £200k+ car. That car will sell and probably to someone who does not realise the reality.

The principle may be the same but the value is relevant.

I wouldn't pay someone £400 to look at an Austin A35 worth £3k - but I wouldn't dream of buying an expensive car, particularly where originality mattered, without expert advice.

Which is why I asked the OP what he was buying. It's relevant if it's value comes from condition or provenance or a combination of both.

For £12k I assume it's nothing too exotic and an inspection by a competent motor engineer, with classic car experience, should suffice.

[Escort3500]

GoodOlBoy said:

av185 said:

The principle is the same irrespective of the cars price.

If you do not know what you are buying 100% it is easy to end up with something you regret.

Many traps for the unwary even through highly respected outlets. E.g. Porsche OPCs selling non UK non c16 cars including GT3s and RS. Turned one down the other week. £200k+ car. That car will sell and probably to someone who does not realise the reality.

The principle may be the same but the value is relevant.

I wouldn't pay someone £400 to look at an Austin A35 worth £3k - but I wouldn't dream of buying an expensive car, particularly where originality mattered, without expert advice.

Which is why I asked the OP what he was buying. It's relevant if it's value comes from condition or provenance or a combination of both.

For £12k I assume it's nothing too exotic and an inspection by a competent motor engineer, with classic car experience, should suffice.

Thanks for the advice everyone. It’s a ‘50’s Ford so not too exotic. I’m viewing it tomorrow and if it’s worth seriously considering I know an engineer who fits the above criteria and will inspect it next week. I’ll let you know how things go

[Escort3500]

Escort3500 said:

Thanks for the advice everyone. It’s a ‘50’s Ford so not too exotic. I’m viewing it tomorrow and if it’s worth seriously considering I know an engineer who fits the above criteria and will inspect it next week. I’ll let you know how things go

Viewed it last Thursday with a pal who runs a garage and is ‘old school’. The underside has been repaired fairly well and the engine ran sweetly. However, 1st and 2nd gears were grinding (bearings) and the body has numerous patch repairs that haven’t been done properly. It was overpriced by about £3-4k so we walked away. The search continues

[Skyedriver]

Out of curiosity, what comeback do you have if a report is wrong and how in-depth are the reports you get?
Are the experts manufacturer or model specific? I do recall one person who just did TVR.

[Norfolkandchance]

Skyedriver said:

Out of curiosity, what comeback do you have if a report is wrong and how in-depth are the reports you get?
Are the experts manufacturer or model specific? I do recall one person who just did TVR.

The one I had was manufacturer specific (Peter Morgan, who did Porsche, probably still does). It was a long time ago now, but my memory is that he was clear that there was no comeback, and that even if there was it would be limited to the cost of the inspection.

As I mentioned earlier, it was very detailed and thorough and definitely gave peace of mind. It also gave a leaver, if required, with the selling dealer. If I was buying a similar car I would definitely employ him again.

[Mellow Yellow]

Norfolkandchance said:

The one I had was manufacturer specific (Peter Morgan, who did Porsche, probably still does). It was a long time ago now, but my memory is that he was clear that there was no comeback, and that even if there was it would be limited to the cost of the inspection.

As I mentioned earlier, it was very detailed and thorough and definitely gave peace of mind. It also gave a leaver, if required, with the selling dealer. If I was buying a similar car I would definitely employ him again.

Exactly, there's no comeback whatsoever. Friend of mine had an inspection by somebody with a very good reputation for inspecting a particular marque. The vendor wouldn't allow anyone else to drive it, Inspector didn't notice the vendors failure to use 5th gear, the gearbox turned out to be in need of a rebuild as fifth wouldn't engage. The chap who did the inspection wouldn't even refund his fee.

So, just because the report says they found nothing wrong with the car, doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with the car.

[Norfolkandchance]

Mellow Yellow said:

Norfolkandchance said:

The one I had was manufacturer specific (Peter Morgan, who did Porsche, probably still does). It was a long time ago now, but my memory is that he was clear that there was no comeback, and that even if there was it would be limited to the cost of the inspection.

As I mentioned earlier, it was very detailed and thorough and definitely gave peace of mind. It also gave a leaver, if required, with the selling dealer. If I was buying a similar car I would definitely employ him again.

Exactly, there's no comeback whatsoever. Friend of mine had an inspection by somebody with a very good reputation for inspecting a particular marque. The vendor wouldn't allow anyone else to drive it, Inspector didn't notice the vendors failure to use 5th gear, the gearbox turned out to be in need of a rebuild as fifth wouldn't engage. The chap who did the inspection wouldn't even refund his fee.

So, just because the report says they found nothing wrong with the car, doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with the car.

I don't want anyone reading my experience to conflate these two events. Personally I would definitely recommend Peter Morgan!

[Zippee]

Skyedriver said:

Out of curiosity, what comeback do you have if a report is wrong and how in-depth are the reports you get?
Are the experts manufacturer or model specific? I do recall one person who just did TVR.

Is that Rob Ingleby you are thinking of? If so then I wouldn't have trusted him to inspect a fridge let alone a TVR and he wriggled out of any mistakes accepting no come back at all.
If you do choose an inspector make sure they really do know what they are looking at and what insurance they have should they miss something crucial.

[Mellow Yellow]

Norfolkandchance said:

Mellow Yellow said:

Norfolkandchance said:

The one I had was manufacturer specific (Peter Morgan, who did Porsche, probably still does). It was a long time ago now, but my memory is that he was clear that there was no comeback, and that even if there was it would be limited to the cost of the inspection.

As I mentioned earlier, it was very detailed and thorough and definitely gave peace of mind. It also gave a leaver, if required, with the selling dealer. If I was buying a similar car I would definitely employ him again.

Exactly, there's no comeback whatsoever. Friend of mine had an inspection by somebody with a very good reputation for inspecting a particular marque. The vendor wouldn't allow anyone else to drive it, Inspector didn't notice the vendors failure to use 5th gear, the gearbox turned out to be in need of a rebuild as fifth wouldn't engage. The chap who did the inspection wouldn't even refund his fee.

So, just because the report says they found nothing wrong with the car, doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with the car.

I don't want anyone reading my experience to conflate these two events. Personally I would definitely recommend Peter Morgan!

Just to be absolutely clear, my comment was not regarding Peter Morgan, the car in question was a TVR.