190e Cosworth 2.5-16 auto
Discussion
Hi guys,
I’m a new member here and have really enjoyed reading the forums, I wondered if anyone here has any experience of 190e Cosworths,
I have always loved these cars and I have now been offered one by someone.
It is a 89/90 2.5 16v auto in black with black leather.
Mileage is around 165-168k
No paperwork or old mots from what info I have, seems to be in decent condition inside and out. Was previously a CAT C
Have checked the car for rot in the usual places ( jacking points , sills, battery tray, around the screens , boot floor etc etc. Car seems solid.
Has not till August.
What would you say this car is worth ? Have seen these on eBay and gumtree and car classics etc going for a minimum of 9-10 k but these are cars that have been stood and need work.
Also I would like to use this car as my daily driver ? Would you recommend ?
I’m a new member here and have really enjoyed reading the forums, I wondered if anyone here has any experience of 190e Cosworths,
I have always loved these cars and I have now been offered one by someone.
It is a 89/90 2.5 16v auto in black with black leather.
Mileage is around 165-168k
No paperwork or old mots from what info I have, seems to be in decent condition inside and out. Was previously a CAT C
Have checked the car for rot in the usual places ( jacking points , sills, battery tray, around the screens , boot floor etc etc. Car seems solid.
Has not till August.
What would you say this car is worth ? Have seen these on eBay and gumtree and car classics etc going for a minimum of 9-10 k but these are cars that have been stood and need work.
Also I would like to use this car as my daily driver ? Would you recommend ?
The 2.5 and auto version like the car you've been offered is considered the better one (as opposed to the 2.3 and manual) - the engine has more torque and it's developed lower down the rev range which makes it much more driveable, and the auto suits the fast flowing A road nature of the car. It was always compared to the M3 of the day but they are quite different in nature.
As you have found out, rot is a big problem so check properly, including behind the bodykit and around the sunroof aperture. Also the self levelling rear suspension is a very expensive fix if it's not working properly. Some owners have overcome the problem with the simple expedient of disconnecting the self levelling mechanism. Beyond that I would look to make sure it is as original as possible (correct 15" 15 hole alloys, decent tyers, correct VDO gauges in the centre console, standard Mercedes 4 spoke steering wheel, no "Cosworth" badging, period radio and speakers etc). Partly because I'm an originality geek and partly because it's an indicator for a well looked after car.
Usual cautions apply - check service history, and provenance and obviously make sure it's original and not a 190E with a cheapo bodykit, badges and engine swap.
Here's an original looking one for £25k - wrong steering wheel I think; I'm not sure the facelift design made it onto the 2.5-16, also no leather and manual.
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1047504
This one looks good from the description, has leather but manual though the seller is talking it up as better than the auto
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1017365
Your post got me looking. Spotted this - perfect spec including bizarrely overmats from the Taj Mahal Tandoori, Watford for €55k!!.
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...
As you have found out, rot is a big problem so check properly, including behind the bodykit and around the sunroof aperture. Also the self levelling rear suspension is a very expensive fix if it's not working properly. Some owners have overcome the problem with the simple expedient of disconnecting the self levelling mechanism. Beyond that I would look to make sure it is as original as possible (correct 15" 15 hole alloys, decent tyers, correct VDO gauges in the centre console, standard Mercedes 4 spoke steering wheel, no "Cosworth" badging, period radio and speakers etc). Partly because I'm an originality geek and partly because it's an indicator for a well looked after car.
Usual cautions apply - check service history, and provenance and obviously make sure it's original and not a 190E with a cheapo bodykit, badges and engine swap.
Here's an original looking one for £25k - wrong steering wheel I think; I'm not sure the facelift design made it onto the 2.5-16, also no leather and manual.
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1047504
This one looks good from the description, has leather but manual though the seller is talking it up as better than the auto
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1017365
Your post got me looking. Spotted this - perfect spec including bizarrely overmats from the Taj Mahal Tandoori, Watford for €55k!!.
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...
😂😂😂🤦♂️ the rugs in that car !!! Cracked me up, thanks for the messages guys, yes I know a lot of people go on about the dogleg gear boxes etc, but as I said I am planning to use this as my daily driver, driving in London and I have always liked autos.
What I wanted to ask if with a car with no History and which will need some attention to cosmetics on bodywork. What do you think is it worth? What would be a good figure if a wanted to take a punt on this, could end up being a headache or something I could restore slightly and could easily make it look like the black one in those pics
What I wanted to ask if with a car with no History and which will need some attention to cosmetics on bodywork. What do you think is it worth? What would be a good figure if a wanted to take a punt on this, could end up being a headache or something I could restore slightly and could easily make it look like the black one in those pics
And if anyone knows how I can check if the self levelling suspension ? If it’s working or not. That would help also. And if it’s bad what would be the cost of putting something like that right again ? Any advice would be much appreciated guys
Edited by Shahid1976 on Wednesday 16th January 19:27
You need to know what you are getting into when buying something like this, no history makes a massive difference on one of these, and sounds scruffy. I'd say £5k if scruffy, £10k if body and trim clean and be prepared to spend another £5k plus to get it into decent running shape, possibly more.
No history means it probably did 100,000 miles in its first 3- 5 years and it got clocked and the history got binned (these were notorious for being clocked as they took the miles with little wear when they were quite new).
I love old 190's and have owned a couple but when I tried to buy the cosworth 2.3' models never liked how they drove and the ones I viewed in SE England always seemed to have a story behind them (clocked, crashed repaired, dodgy mods).
Sadly these cars spent a decade or more in the hands of the worst sort of people, good ones were rare even 15 yrs ago hence cost a lot more than scruffy zero history ones now. If its got rust in the usual places there is no cheap solution to fixing them.
No history means it probably did 100,000 miles in its first 3- 5 years and it got clocked and the history got binned (these were notorious for being clocked as they took the miles with little wear when they were quite new).
I love old 190's and have owned a couple but when I tried to buy the cosworth 2.3' models never liked how they drove and the ones I viewed in SE England always seemed to have a story behind them (clocked, crashed repaired, dodgy mods).
Sadly these cars spent a decade or more in the hands of the worst sort of people, good ones were rare even 15 yrs ago hence cost a lot more than scruffy zero history ones now. If its got rust in the usual places there is no cheap solution to fixing them.
Back in the early 90s a mate of mine had a 2.3 litre manual one in blue/black metallic with full black leather trim and I loved driving it on A roads and fast-flowing B roads - but I wouldn't have wanted it as a daily driver!
It handled brilliantly, but compared to my W123 280e the ride quality was dreadful.
And I really can't see the point of an autobox of that generation in a car like that.
But if the price is right...…….!
It handled brilliantly, but compared to my W123 280e the ride quality was dreadful.
And I really can't see the point of an autobox of that generation in a car like that.
But if the price is right...…….!
I happen to own a 1989 190E Auto with just under 90,000 miles on it.
I thought about the manual box, of which there are probably more around, but decided against it due to me being old and having a bad back. It drives superbly, keeps up well with modern traffic and will cruise all day long at the legal limit whilst returning around 30mpg, more on a run. It's comfortable, sensibly sized and a very relaxing car to drive.
Mine has the half leather interior which was my preferred choice, though not a deal breaker, as I find it better than leather in the summer and, if it ventures out at all, a bit warmer on the bum in the winter. Check the top of the door cards as they de-laminate and come away from the top of the door, They can be repaired but not cheaply.
I spent quite a while looking for the right one to come along but even so still had to do a good amount of work to get it to an acceptable standard. This included some welding on the rear inner wheel arches which was hidden by some well applied underseal. I was a bit upset by this but at least I know that it's solid now and not the perforated zinc and filler which was in it. Also worth checking behind the body kit if possible as they can rot there as well.
The subframe on mine was in good condition, possibly a replacement, though was taken off anyway as there was a lot of scabbing on the bodywork underneath it, though thankfully only surface rust which has now been treated and painted. The self levelling suspension is all in place and works perfectly. The quickest way to check is to put a bit of weight in the boot, like a big bloke, start the engine and it should rise pretty instantly.
The front suspension and steering joints are prone to wear and should be carefully checked, especially the bottom ball joints which can give way without notice, causing massive damage. Even though these cars have a steering box and not a rack and pinion set up, they are quite positive to drive and should have little or no play in the wheel.
Noisy tappets are perfectly normal on these cars, in fact I'd be a bit cautious of an overly quiet engine as it can signify problems. The engine should also be very responsive to throttle input and the box should change instantly. The diff can whine a bit, though shouldn't be too loud. If it is, then budget for a rebuild.
As said earlier, history is all important on these cars at nearly 30 years old and with a good few miles on them. The cam chain can wear and cause issues further along the line, and the oil should be changed regularly so I'd want some validation that things have been done. I struck lucky with mine as I have documented evidence of a full engine rebuild under 5,000 miles ago by a renowned specialist in the marque.
It's also pretty handy to find a good independent mechanic who's familiar with these cars as they can have a few issues with the injection system and their electronics. It needs someone who knows them to sort them out as they're not exactly straightforward.
TL;DR: Get a good one and you'll be happy - get a bad one and you'll realise there's no such thing as a cheap 190E 2.5-16
Gratuitous picture of mine: -
And the interior: -
I thought about the manual box, of which there are probably more around, but decided against it due to me being old and having a bad back. It drives superbly, keeps up well with modern traffic and will cruise all day long at the legal limit whilst returning around 30mpg, more on a run. It's comfortable, sensibly sized and a very relaxing car to drive.
Mine has the half leather interior which was my preferred choice, though not a deal breaker, as I find it better than leather in the summer and, if it ventures out at all, a bit warmer on the bum in the winter. Check the top of the door cards as they de-laminate and come away from the top of the door, They can be repaired but not cheaply.
I spent quite a while looking for the right one to come along but even so still had to do a good amount of work to get it to an acceptable standard. This included some welding on the rear inner wheel arches which was hidden by some well applied underseal. I was a bit upset by this but at least I know that it's solid now and not the perforated zinc and filler which was in it. Also worth checking behind the body kit if possible as they can rot there as well.
The subframe on mine was in good condition, possibly a replacement, though was taken off anyway as there was a lot of scabbing on the bodywork underneath it, though thankfully only surface rust which has now been treated and painted. The self levelling suspension is all in place and works perfectly. The quickest way to check is to put a bit of weight in the boot, like a big bloke, start the engine and it should rise pretty instantly.
The front suspension and steering joints are prone to wear and should be carefully checked, especially the bottom ball joints which can give way without notice, causing massive damage. Even though these cars have a steering box and not a rack and pinion set up, they are quite positive to drive and should have little or no play in the wheel.
Noisy tappets are perfectly normal on these cars, in fact I'd be a bit cautious of an overly quiet engine as it can signify problems. The engine should also be very responsive to throttle input and the box should change instantly. The diff can whine a bit, though shouldn't be too loud. If it is, then budget for a rebuild.
As said earlier, history is all important on these cars at nearly 30 years old and with a good few miles on them. The cam chain can wear and cause issues further along the line, and the oil should be changed regularly so I'd want some validation that things have been done. I struck lucky with mine as I have documented evidence of a full engine rebuild under 5,000 miles ago by a renowned specialist in the marque.
It's also pretty handy to find a good independent mechanic who's familiar with these cars as they can have a few issues with the injection system and their electronics. It needs someone who knows them to sort them out as they're not exactly straightforward.
TL;DR: Get a good one and you'll be happy - get a bad one and you'll realise there's no such thing as a cheap 190E 2.5-16
Gratuitous picture of mine: -
And the interior: -
rallycross said:
You need to know what you are getting into when buying something like this, no history makes a massive difference on one of these, and sounds scruffy. I'd say £5k if scruffy, £10k if body and trim clean and be prepared to spend another £5k plus to get it into decent running shape, possibly more.
No history means it probably did 100,000 miles in its first 3- 5 years and it got clocked and the history got binned (these were notorious for being clocked as they took the miles with little wear when they were quite new).
I love old 190's and have owned a couple but when I tried to buy the cosworth 2.3' models never liked how they drove and the ones I viewed in SE England always seemed to have a story behind them (clocked, crashed repaired, dodgy mods).
Sadly these cars spent a decade or more in the hands of the worst sort of people, good ones were rare even 15 yrs ago hence cost a lot more than scruffy zero history ones now. If its got rust in the usual places there is no cheap solution to fixing them.
I've been looking at these for a couple of years and I think the values have moved on a bit now. I don't think £5k would get you a scruffy car any longer. I think a basket case would still fetch that. I wish I'd gone for one when I first started looking! There's not much that pops up now for below £15k with seemingly good condition cars being offered for up to £25k. As always what I don't know is what they're actually selling for! You're right though on being prepared to spend a chunk getting one up to spec as I think even the £15k cars will eat through £5k quite quickly. No history means it probably did 100,000 miles in its first 3- 5 years and it got clocked and the history got binned (these were notorious for being clocked as they took the miles with little wear when they were quite new).
I love old 190's and have owned a couple but when I tried to buy the cosworth 2.3' models never liked how they drove and the ones I viewed in SE England always seemed to have a story behind them (clocked, crashed repaired, dodgy mods).
Sadly these cars spent a decade or more in the hands of the worst sort of people, good ones were rare even 15 yrs ago hence cost a lot more than scruffy zero history ones now. If its got rust in the usual places there is no cheap solution to fixing them.
Good look to the OP in finding one as I think they're fab cars
Mr Tidy said:
And I really can't see the point of an autobox of that generation in a car like that.
Quite.For the same reason there was no auto option on Sierra Cosworths, E30 M3's etc.
And the autoboxes of that era aren't exactly like the modern dual-clutch things we have today.
I actually never knew they did an auto option on the 190 Cosworths until reading this thread, I that they were all fitted with the dog-leg 5 speeds!!
the Self Levelling rear suspension is pretty bullet proof in my experience. you can replace the rear spheres and pipework for next to nothing. K-jet fuel system rebuild for around £500 if it wont run properly. mine was mint and I sold it for £5k about 5 years ago 
some chap from Malta sent a guy with a truck to collect it.
some chap from Malta sent a guy with a truck to collect it.OP - FYI - a couple of cars which appeared at auction last year:
www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/mercedes-190e-2-5-16-...
www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/mercedes-190e-2-5-cos...
Similar mileage, similar price ~£9.5K
www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/mercedes-190e-2-5-16-...
www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/mercedes-190e-2-5-cos...
Similar mileage, similar price ~£9.5K
I've had a couple, though no autos, and still have a 2.5 manual. When they're sorted (inc the rear suspension) they are a fantastic car to drive and gloriously smooth on the road in a really nice way. If its a reasonable price and the car is in good condition then judge it on that (and how it drives) rather than the mileage, as many of them have done high miles and cope well with it. Worth seeing if you can get a specialist to check it out but I've found it can be a struggle to find someone who is truly familiar with them.
I used mine as a daily driver with no issue, and I think the car was actually better for it.
I used mine as a daily driver with no issue, and I think the car was actually better for it.
Thank you very much guys for the really helpful information, I will for sure go and look at it again and this time try and jack it up and get underneath it and have a prod around with a large screwdriver 😈
The bodywork does seem to be generally in half decent condition. I am looking to pay around 7-8k for this car.
It was owned by a gentleman who has passed away and his son is selling it and he does not have any real interest in these cars.
I will update you guys on what happens and if I do go ahead with the purchase I will upload some pics of the car. May the force be with me
The bodywork does seem to be generally in half decent condition. I am looking to pay around 7-8k for this car.
It was owned by a gentleman who has passed away and his son is selling it and he does not have any real interest in these cars.
I will update you guys on what happens and if I do go ahead with the purchase I will upload some pics of the car. May the force be with me
Shahid1976 said:
Thank you very much guys for the really helpful information, I will for sure go and look at it again and this time try and jack it up and get underneath it and have a prod around with a large screwdriver ??
The bodywork does seem to be generally in half decent condition. I am looking to pay around 7-8k for this car.
It was owned by a gentleman who has passed away and his son is selling it and he does not have any real interest in these cars.
I will update you guys on what happens and if I do go ahead with the purchase I will upload some pics of the car. May the force be with me
Good luck with the viewing! Don't prod too hard with your screwdriver as that kind of thing is likely to upset most sellers if you put a hole in the floor The bodywork does seem to be generally in half decent condition. I am looking to pay around 7-8k for this car.
It was owned by a gentleman who has passed away and his son is selling it and he does not have any real interest in these cars.
I will update you guys on what happens and if I do go ahead with the purchase I will upload some pics of the car. May the force be with me
Well if I do manage to get a hole in the floor the price will have to come down 
If it will upset him.... well he will know his car has rot at least.
But yes I’m very much interested in the car but I don’t want to get stung with a shed.
Will update all on whatever way it goes. Thank you for all your messages and all the very useful advice guys, very much appreciated
If it will upset him.... well he will know his car has rot at least.
But yes I’m very much interested in the car but I don’t want to get stung with a shed.
Will update all on whatever way it goes. Thank you for all your messages and all the very useful advice guys, very much appreciated
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