What's the perfect modern performance "classic"?
Discussion
I have owned and driven a fairly wide range of cars from the late 80s/early 90s to "modern" cars from the 2010s and would have say that my favourites from a visceral driving experience point of view were the older cars. More steering feel, more supple ride and a greater sensation of speed and excitement, even if they were "slower" in objective terms. However, they left a lot to be desired in some areas such as refinement, safety, lighting and heating/ventilation. "Modern" cars certainly offer big improvements in these areas for the most part but this generally comes at the cost of steering feel, an overly firm ride and a lack of involvement/excitement, even if it is "fast" in objective terms (not to mention the plethora of annoying active safety features and big, ugly touchscreens). I'm sure there are exceptions but I haven't driven many of them but although I yearn for the visceral excitement of the older cars, I wouldn't want to compromise too much on the positives that "modern" cars offer. Which got me thinking that there must be a "sweet spot" in between where you have something that is modern, practical, refined and safe enough to put your kids in and use every day but offers some of the more visceral excitement and "feel" of an older car but probably with a few but not overly-intrusive electronic safety nets (ABS, ESP etc). I'm thinking the balance point is probably in the 2000s. For me, it would need to have a reasonable-sized boot and seat four but I guess some 2-seaters could also be practical enough to use every day. So what in your opinion is the perfect modern performance "classic"? Let's say a nominal budget of 20k (or less). My first thought was one of these but I hear that they can suffer from a number of issues and can be quite expensive cars to run.
I think I can relate to what the OP is saying.
New enough to have some driver aids (that can ideally be turned of when the mood takes you), ABS and multiple airbags, plus some refinements like climate control, but no need to scroll through countless modes for suspension, steering, throttle response, etc.
My 2006 BMW Z4 Coupe suits me pretty well as it's got a naturally aspirated straight 6, RWD and a manual gearbox. But the lack of a dipstick seems a bit pointless, I'd have preferred hydraulic PAS, the electric water pumps aren't cheap and the run-flat tyres aren't great - but at least they can be changed easily enough.
Still a Z4M Coupe could be in budget and they do have a dip-stick, hydraulic PAS and no run-flats! Looks like I'm talking myself into spending more money.
New enough to have some driver aids (that can ideally be turned of when the mood takes you), ABS and multiple airbags, plus some refinements like climate control, but no need to scroll through countless modes for suspension, steering, throttle response, etc.
My 2006 BMW Z4 Coupe suits me pretty well as it's got a naturally aspirated straight 6, RWD and a manual gearbox. But the lack of a dipstick seems a bit pointless, I'd have preferred hydraulic PAS, the electric water pumps aren't cheap and the run-flat tyres aren't great - but at least they can be changed easily enough.
Still a Z4M Coupe could be in budget and they do have a dip-stick, hydraulic PAS and no run-flats! Looks like I'm talking myself into spending more money.
Baldchap said:
Full disclosure; does OP own the car suggested?
I wish! No, I have a 2009 MINI Cooper. Great car and almost as fun as my 205 GTi was but not quite as immediate and a rather jarring ride. A lot easier to live with though and it feels a lot more solid. It's certainly the closest "modern" car that I've driven to a 205 GTi. Not owned much interesting stuff from the 2000s, other than a 2004 WRX. It struck a nice balance but they are kind of "banger" money at the moment and fairly common, so not that special.Fiesta ST is one I would like to try (I'm assuming mk7?) but isn't the new mk8 similar but just a little bit better and maybe a bit too common in numbers to be truly "special/classic"?
Likewise the mk5 Golf GTI and I had one briefly as a company car. Great all-rounder and it was fun but aren't the mk6 and mk7 similar but just incrementally better? I haven't driven a mk1/mk2 GTi but is the mk5 as fun? mk4/mk5 R32 maybe because they don't offer the speed but have charisma that the Golf R just can't match, as fast and as polished as it is.
Good shout on the mk2 Focus RS (also possibly the mk1) but the mk2 would be my choice too with that gorgeous Volvo 5-pot and to a lesser extent the mk2 Focus ST, which isn't quite as polished as the Golf GTI but is a bit more "outgoing" and has a bit more character.
Porsche 996 still a little unloved and can have some mechanical issues? Not as mechanically "bombroof" as the 964/993 and the 997 is surely faster and better-looking and still just in budget?
Ur Quattro probably felt ahead of its time so probably stands the test of time but an issue with many "older" cars including I think the Quattro is waning parts availability, which would make it harder to run as an everyday car.
With the exception of lacking rear seats, the Z4 Si Coupe is a great shout. Many of the qualities of the E46 M3 without the exorbitant running costs and it's a fairly unique proposition and will become quite special in time.
white_goodman said:
I have owned and driven a fairly wide range of cars from the late 80s/early 90s to "modern" cars from the 2010s and would have say that my favourites from a visceral driving experience point of view were the older cars. More steering feel, more supple ride and a greater sensation of speed and excitement, even if they were "slower" in objective terms. However, they left a lot to be desired in some areas such as refinement, safety, lighting and heating/ventilation. "Modern" cars certainly offer big improvements in these areas for the most part but this generally comes at the cost of steering feel, an overly firm ride and a lack of involvement/excitement, even if it is "fast" in objective terms (not to mention the plethora of annoying active safety features and big, ugly touchscreens). I'm sure there are exceptions but I haven't driven many of them but although I yearn for the visceral excitement of the older cars, I wouldn't want to compromise too much on the positives that "modern" cars offer. Which got me thinking that there must be a "sweet spot" in between where you have something that is modern, practical, refined and safe enough to put your kids in and use every day but offers some of the more visceral excitement and "feel" of an older car but probably with a few but not overly-intrusive electronic safety nets (ABS, ESP etc). I'm thinking the balance point is probably in the 2000s. For me, it would need to have a reasonable-sized boot and seat four but I guess some 2-seaters could also be practical enough to use every day. So what in your opinion is the perfect modern performance "classic"? Let's say a nominal budget of 20k (or less). My first thought was one of these but I hear that they can suffer from a number of issues and can be quite expensive cars to run.
Did anyone say visceral? 
Guess you need to define 'modern classic' and what you need it to do everyday. (E.g. Speed, mpg, manual/auto etc). Most people expect all the mod cons.
I'm happy with a great driving car with no tech apart from a decent stereo.
996 turbo is great but not £20k, but a 996 C2 would fit.
Golf GTI MK7 offers a mic of performance and mpg.
The Mk7 R ups the performance at the cost of mpg.
Jaguar XKR from 2006 on would be a great motorway cruiser, but poor mpg.
E46 M3 offers a reasonable all round package as more of a classic.
bennettse2025 said:
I've never had one (though would love to at some point) but I've never heard a bad word said about the Mk5 golf GTi. Modern enough to tick your 'modern' boxes, fun as hell (so I'm told) and pretty reliable (again, so I'm led to believe).
I had one and found it rather dull. The auto gearbox probably didnt help though.
The Wookie said:
Might be a controversial one but what about the old early 00’s Merc SL55?
Ok not the sharpest steer but muscle car noise and hilarious tyre smoking performance in something that’s usable and comfortable by modern standards.
Granted the bork potential is a bit scary
The E55/CLS55 share an engine with these but are a little less terrifying in the suspension department.Ok not the sharpest steer but muscle car noise and hilarious tyre smoking performance in something that’s usable and comfortable by modern standards.
Granted the bork potential is a bit scary
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