Help! I cannot get a V5!
Discussion
Please can someone help me?
I have a 1960's classic van and after about 10 years ownership it had an engine fire in 2011. It was written off by the insurance company bt as I had renovated it with my late father it had a lot of sentimental value so I purchased it back from the insurance company and paid a local restorer to get it fixed up. Sadly the mechanic lost interest and about 2 years ago I had to move it to a new company because he had all but given up. The work was completed about a week or two ago and I applied to get the V5 back with a V62 form. I had the shock of my life when I received a letter from the DVLA last week saying it had been written off cat A or B and should therefore be crushed and could not be put back on the road. I have contacted the insurance company but they are being less than helpful at present but I am unsure if there is anything they will be able to do. I cannot imagine they will be able to update the category of write off but that is the only way I can see it can be put back on the road.
I am guessing that this situation is a result of the abolition of the VC check.
If anyone can offer advice or guidance I will be more than appreciative.
I have a 1960's classic van and after about 10 years ownership it had an engine fire in 2011. It was written off by the insurance company bt as I had renovated it with my late father it had a lot of sentimental value so I purchased it back from the insurance company and paid a local restorer to get it fixed up. Sadly the mechanic lost interest and about 2 years ago I had to move it to a new company because he had all but given up. The work was completed about a week or two ago and I applied to get the V5 back with a V62 form. I had the shock of my life when I received a letter from the DVLA last week saying it had been written off cat A or B and should therefore be crushed and could not be put back on the road. I have contacted the insurance company but they are being less than helpful at present but I am unsure if there is anything they will be able to do. I cannot imagine they will be able to update the category of write off but that is the only way I can see it can be put back on the road.
I am guessing that this situation is a result of the abolition of the VC check.
If anyone can offer advice or guidance I will be more than appreciative.
Sorry, but this is not good news. It likely stems from the categorisation following the insurance write off and you're stuck with it. It's common for fire damaged vehicles to be categorised as a total loss, unfit for repair - hence Cat A (crush in entirety) or Cat B (may be some salvageable parts but body shell to be crushed). Essentially it's a category for cars never allowed to return to the road and is prevalent amongst fire damaged vehicles because it's impossible for the assessor to determine what (if any) structural damage / weakness has occurred as a result of the fire. The heat and cooling, plus exposure to chemicals created during burning can change the physical properties of the underlying metal, making the steel perhaps more malleable or brittle etc. (by way of example think of the difference in molecular structure and physical properties of metal heated to high temperature then immediately quenched in water vs the same metal heated to the same temperature and left to cool slowly). If there is anything burnt beyond de-mountable panels, it's safer for the assessor to declare it Cat A or B to mitigate the risk that there may be invisible changes to the structure of the vehicle, which might leave it unsafe even after repair of all visible damage.
I'm guessing in your case, since it was an engine bay fire, there may have been fire / heat damage to the bulkhead and that's why it's been categorised A or B.
I think it's unlikely the insurance co. will be inclined to co-operate to change the category this long after the event - there is nothing in it for them, you only paid Cat A or B salvage value for the remains and their assessor is unlikely to change their opinion, irrespective of the repairs completed. But you'll have to try as that's pretty much your only (legal) option to retain the original identity of the car.....
They'll be other, more creative or less legal ways of restoring a Cat A or B car to the road, as alluded to above, but it's up to you to research and implement whatever you think is right if you go that route........ It's also something you'd probably have to get your hands dirty with personally, as finding a garage prepared to change or remove the identity of a car will (or at least should!) be a significant challenge....
With the benefit of hindsight the correct thing to have done would to have been to negotiate with the insurance company at the time to ensure the vehicle was written off but with a repairable category and then buy it back. That would likely have changed their payout and salvage value of the vehicle.
Sorry but good luck!
I'm guessing in your case, since it was an engine bay fire, there may have been fire / heat damage to the bulkhead and that's why it's been categorised A or B.
I think it's unlikely the insurance co. will be inclined to co-operate to change the category this long after the event - there is nothing in it for them, you only paid Cat A or B salvage value for the remains and their assessor is unlikely to change their opinion, irrespective of the repairs completed. But you'll have to try as that's pretty much your only (legal) option to retain the original identity of the car.....
They'll be other, more creative or less legal ways of restoring a Cat A or B car to the road, as alluded to above, but it's up to you to research and implement whatever you think is right if you go that route........ It's also something you'd probably have to get your hands dirty with personally, as finding a garage prepared to change or remove the identity of a car will (or at least should!) be a significant challenge....
With the benefit of hindsight the correct thing to have done would to have been to negotiate with the insurance company at the time to ensure the vehicle was written off but with a repairable category and then buy it back. That would likely have changed their payout and salvage value of the vehicle.
Sorry but good luck!
Surely the insurnance company is guilty of maladministration? They can sell a Cat.A or B car back to you for salvage, but they must retain the V5, and will want the car's remains when you have finished with them.
I did this in 2007. All that was left of my classic was a ladder chassis, which amazed the four-car transporter lorry driver, sent by my insurer to collect the car when I had stripped off the parts I wanted. I had to give up the V5 - that's why you don't have it - but your insurer should only have sold you the damaged car on condition that it later received evidence that it had been destroyed. They should never have allowed you to restore a Cat A or B write off, and have a responsibility to see that it has been done.
JOhn
I did this in 2007. All that was left of my classic was a ladder chassis, which amazed the four-car transporter lorry driver, sent by my insurer to collect the car when I had stripped off the parts I wanted. I had to give up the V5 - that's why you don't have it - but your insurer should only have sold you the damaged car on condition that it later received evidence that it had been destroyed. They should never have allowed you to restore a Cat A or B write off, and have a responsibility to see that it has been done.
JOhn
Edited by tapkaJohnD on Friday 1st March 09:04
t to outsourcing plc types who seem to be paid on emails and delaying strategies regarding older historic motors. I've been jumping through hoops to get my old Escort recognised despite a v5c in my name.I am no expert but I have known of at least two cars that were Cat B that stayed on the road. The owners had repairs done to make them roadworthy and used them for a couple more years. I think the problem came when trying to sell them as they could only be exported or scrapped as DVLA would not issue new V5s
dubvanman said:
Please can someone help me?
I have a 1960's classic van and after about 10 years ownership it had an engine fire in 2011. It was written off by the insurance company bt as I had renovated it with my late father it had a lot of sentimental value so I purchased it back from the insurance company and paid a local restorer to get it fixed up. Sadly the mechanic lost interest and about 2 years ago I had to move it to a new company because he had all but given up. The work was completed about a week or two ago and I applied to get the V5 back with a V62 form. I had the shock of my life when I received a letter from the DVLA last week saying it had been written off cat A or B and should therefore be crushed and could not be put back on the road. I have contacted the insurance company but they are being less than helpful at present but I am unsure if there is anything they will be able to do. I cannot imagine they will be able to update the category of write off but that is the only way I can see it can be put back on the road.
I am guessing that this situation is a result of the abolition of the VC check.
If anyone can offer advice or guidance I will be more than appreciative.
I've been though this before so here is some info:I have a 1960's classic van and after about 10 years ownership it had an engine fire in 2011. It was written off by the insurance company bt as I had renovated it with my late father it had a lot of sentimental value so I purchased it back from the insurance company and paid a local restorer to get it fixed up. Sadly the mechanic lost interest and about 2 years ago I had to move it to a new company because he had all but given up. The work was completed about a week or two ago and I applied to get the V5 back with a V62 form. I had the shock of my life when I received a letter from the DVLA last week saying it had been written off cat A or B and should therefore be crushed and could not be put back on the road. I have contacted the insurance company but they are being less than helpful at present but I am unsure if there is anything they will be able to do. I cannot imagine they will be able to update the category of write off but that is the only way I can see it can be put back on the road.
I am guessing that this situation is a result of the abolition of the VC check.
If anyone can offer advice or guidance I will be more than appreciative.
Car flooded in 2012, bought back as cat B, had it cleaned up and rebuilt. Still driving it with V5 for the last 7 years, no problems getting it taxed or MOT'd. Not many insurers will cover it but some do and prices are normal.
Basically, the requirement to scrap is from the insurers code of practice, not law.
I had statements from DVLA/VOSA that it is OK to use it on the road.
You won't be able to get the cat A/B marker removed, even with an HPI inspection.
PM if you need more info.
Edited by rotarymazda on Thursday 21st March 09:54
Thanks for all your input. This has been put onto the back burner a bit as I am moving house but I have had feedback from both the insurance company and the DVLA.
The insurance company claim that when they sold it back to me as a cat B the VIC check was in place which allowed cat B's to go back onto the road once repaired and checked. They are therefore washing their hands of any responsibility for the issue.
DVLA have responded to me after I contested their decision not to give back the V5, saying: The DVLA cannot give a V5 to a vehicle that has been identified as cat B since the abolition of the VIC check. They did however point out that if the insurance company admit they made an error when giving the cat B and change the category, the DVLA can issue a V5.
This therefore means I have to persuade the insurance company to change the category from B to C. This is not going to be easy, not least because I am dealing with three or four companies who all play different roles in the insurance process and the claim being made in 2011. Also the company that originally undertook the assessment is now no longer in business and the company they have now become has no longer got any of the original documentation or even records of the claim.
Anyone that can offer anything more than speculation or sympathy (both are also welcome) will receive my deepest gratitude.
The insurance company claim that when they sold it back to me as a cat B the VIC check was in place which allowed cat B's to go back onto the road once repaired and checked. They are therefore washing their hands of any responsibility for the issue.
DVLA have responded to me after I contested their decision not to give back the V5, saying: The DVLA cannot give a V5 to a vehicle that has been identified as cat B since the abolition of the VIC check. They did however point out that if the insurance company admit they made an error when giving the cat B and change the category, the DVLA can issue a V5.
This therefore means I have to persuade the insurance company to change the category from B to C. This is not going to be easy, not least because I am dealing with three or four companies who all play different roles in the insurance process and the claim being made in 2011. Also the company that originally undertook the assessment is now no longer in business and the company they have now become has no longer got any of the original documentation or even records of the claim.
Anyone that can offer anything more than speculation or sympathy (both are also welcome) will receive my deepest gratitude.
I'd go back to the insurance company with the personal story of the vehicle and what it means to you along with comprehensive details / photographs of the restoration and the information from the DVLA that states they will issue the V5 if the category is changed, I'd also include an acceptance of the changes to the system for getting the vehicle back on the road and point out that this was always the intention from the start, the system has changed around both parties so you then ask very nicely if they will help out to put you back in the position that you were after first buying the vehicle back from them (restore / inspect / return to the road) offer to pay any cost incurred (including an inspection if required) and see what they say.
How about getting an independent engineer to inspect it and provide a report? If that confirmed that essentially it is the original vehicle that has had the accident damage correctly repaired to a high standard you would hope that the ex-insurers would be sympathetic. In addition get it MOT'd, it could be done on the chassis number, you don't need to be road registered, together with the report that has got to be a really good case and even if your ex-insurers still did not play ball you could use this as further evidence to DVLA.
From my own experience you could try the following :
Have the van mot'd using the chassis number
Write to manufacturer (if still in existence), failing that owner's club, specialist, etc quoting chassis number and asking for date of manufacture in writing.
Having got these, complete registration form V55 (IIRC) and send to DVLA to register van, DVLA may want to inspect that the chassis number on the form is on the vehicle. DVLA should then issue a reg number and V5.
Obviously it won't be the original number but it should get you a V5.
Have the van mot'd using the chassis number
Write to manufacturer (if still in existence), failing that owner's club, specialist, etc quoting chassis number and asking for date of manufacture in writing.
Having got these, complete registration form V55 (IIRC) and send to DVLA to register van, DVLA may want to inspect that the chassis number on the form is on the vehicle. DVLA should then issue a reg number and V5.
Obviously it won't be the original number but it should get you a V5.
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