E-Type, restored or recreation?

[geeman237]

I saw this on the Classic and Sports Car website today. We know this goes on, but what are you ending up with, a 'restored' car or a recreation from an identity?

https://www.classicandsportscar.com/news/epic-rest...

A quote from the article "Indeed, the team had to source or hand-craft everything other than the original logbook, running gear and the rear suspension – all the bodywork was unsalvageable."

[Mike-tf3n0]

Both! When restoring a car from such a derelict condition as this one was in there is bound to be a good deal of replacement and remaking of parts, the alternative is simply to crush the rusting wreckage. Personally I would rather see, and hear, the car back on the road, restored to life and health!!

[lowdrag]

I see no problem with the DVLA since like has been replaced by like. If the wreck had been used to create a C-type or D-type then yes, the IVA would come into play. As regards the restoration, I can't on earth see how this was economically possible. I have seen bills for £2,000 for just restoring a rear cage and that cage was better than this, and if the body itself was unrestorable, then have a look at Martin Robey's price list and you'll see £17,000 just for the basic shell, then you have the bonnet (£7,000), doors, hatch, and we are now getting started. For arguments sake we,spent £30,000 and still have a pile of bits. Sport engine rebuild £10,000, trim kit £3,000 and then we get to the nitty gritty with instruments, chrome, bumpers, lights, wheels, tyres, tool kit - the list goes on and on. Oh, and I forgot painting, the gearbox et al. But then we have left out the part you will never set eyes on, except in the bill - the labour cost. Estimates vary, but it will be between 2,000 and 3,000 hours so let's say at a cheap £40 per hour £100,000 + VAT. So we now have an E-type that has cost £200,000 to rebuild and is in today's market worth about - who knows? My car was around £250,000 last year and now about £150,000, and mine is supposedly more collectable being a 1961 3.8 flat floor and a roadster. So assuming he stole the wreck for £25,000 in simple figures we have a car that cost him at least £225,000 and is now worth £125,000. Economic suicide, but then who am I to criticise. Another E-type saved.

Edited by lowdrag on Sunday 1st September 09:41

[MarkwG]

I guess it also represents a good learning platform to teach the skills from the ground up, all in one handy package, so perhaps the end result could be seen as a bonus

[InitialDave]

lowdrag said:

I see no problem with the DVLA since like has been replaced by like.

I agree. I have a vehicle which is probably more new metal than old in the chassis, but it was done to repair it, so it's not a modification. I could replace the entire chassis, and as long as it's new and as per original spec, there's nothing to even discuss with anyone over identity etc.

And that's without getting into the "rebuilt historic" side of things, where to a large extent if it's nailed together from the right period bits for what it's supposed to be, it "counts" as being such.

I have an issue with totally destroyed vehicles being sold effectively for their logbook/identity where that means someone is cloning them to launder a stolen car, but taking such a wreck and rebuilding it from the ground up? Fine by me, better to have another interesting old car still around in some form.

[grumpy52]

Probably little difference to many of the "restorations" from the 70s and 80s or even many of the later ones done by some of the fringe restoration companies these days .

[Penguinracer]

"Re-shelling" is a euphemism for "only the mechanicals remain from the original factory build."

I think the defining question is "What percentage of this car ,by mass, body surface area or part numbers etc remains from the original factory build."

An entirely new body built in a restorers' workshop from aftermarket panels is not the same as a factory original body which rolled off the production line years earlier. The former may indeed be superior, but it wasn't built by the manufacturer. That may or may not be significant to some people - but what's important is that the description is as accurate as it can be so that buyers & collectors can make up their minds (a) if that's important to them; & (b) how it impacts the vehicle's value.

[mickrick]

I suppose the V5 is original.
At the end of the day, it's a beautiful car.

[lowdrag]

Penguinracer said:

"Re-shelling" is a euphemism for "only the mechanicals remain from the original factory build."

I think the defining question is "What percentage of this car ,by mass, body surface area or part numbers etc remains from the original factory build."

An entirely new body built in a restorers' workshop from aftermarket panels is not the same as a factory original body which rolled off the production line years earlier. The former may indeed be superior, but it wasn't built by the manufacturer. That may or may not be significant to some people - but what's important is that the description is as accurate as it can be so that buyers & collectors can make up their minds (a) if that's important to them; & (b) how it impacts the vehicle's value.

I'm not going to get into another endless discussion on what is original and what isn't but we all have had an accident or two in our lives I guess. This car was reshelled in 1983 after a waltz caused by a muddy road, rain, and an encounter with an electricity pole:-

Virtually every classic racer has been reshelled or serious work undertaken after an accident. I know of one car on it's fourth shell. But the DVLA rules allow it, so for me that's fine. And if you really want to get down to the finer points I once, after being pursued by someone after deducting a point in a concours, asked the entrant where he found the 1961 air to pump up his tyres. This car has been saved; end of story.

[aeropilot]

lowdrag said:

Virtually every classic racer has been reshelled or serious work undertaken after an accident. I know of one car on it's fourth shell. But the DVLA rules allow it, so for me that's fine. And if you really want to get down to the finer points I once, after being pursued by someone after deducting a point in a concours, asked the entrant where he found the 1961 air to pump up his tyres. This car has been saved; end of story.

[kurt535]

Trigger's broom

[EXKAY120]

In the 80's we called it a Ringer :-)

[Peter3442]

‘Ere’s the axe – that’s the genuine axe, Sir,
That’s given Royal necks some ‘ard whacks.
Tho’ it’s ‘ad a new ‘andle and perhaps a new head
But it’s a real old original axe.

[MarkwG]

EXKAY120 said:

In the 80's we called it a Ringer :-)

That was reserved for when the vin tag from a wrecked car was used on a stolen one to legitimate it, where I came from.

[lowdrag]

MarkwG said:

That was reserved for when the vin tag from a wrecked car was used on a stolen one to legitimate it, where I came from.

+1

[EXKAY120]

Or cut and shut ?

[lowdrag]

Cut and shut referred to a car cut in two at the B-post and half another car welded to make one car. We did it to my Cooper S after we pranged it in a rally. The rear read Austin Se7en and the front Cooper S.

[P5BNij]

Reshelling seems to get under some folk's skin more than others, in Mini circles it's very, very common but frowned upon by many. My '68 S was reshelled into another period twin tank Cooper shell almost thirty years ago after it was rear ended, the 'new' shell even has the 'factory' right hand tank mounting bracket on the rear bulkhead but I still get grief over it from purists occasionally. The MGB and Escort boys don't seem to be too bothered about this sort of stuff.

Life's too short, but then so am I

[Peter3442]

It's easy, too easy to criticise a re-shell. However, when you are up to your neck in cutting out corrosion, undoing other people's bodges, straightening accident damaged parts, trying to keep the remnants of good metal aligned and weld in the new bits that aren't even approximately the right shape, then you understand that an original, unused, old stock body would be a dream come true. Anyone got a spare Jaguar Mk2 shell that's in their way? There were a couple for sale around the mid to late 1970s at £ 500 each. Unfortunately, I didn't have anywhere to store them....

[MarkwG]

lowdrag said:

Cut and shut referred to a car cut in two at the B-post and half another car welded to make one car. We did it to my Cooper S after we pranged it in a rally. The rear read Austin Se7en and the front Cooper S.

+ 1 (seems we share a knowledge of slang words for dubious motor trade behaviour )