Are borked ICE cars now worth something as EVs?
Discussion
Looking through the thread on Classics left to Rot, there are a good number of (what were in their day) lovely cars, laid aside because of an uneconomic repair required, an "engine out" job that falls between the cracks because it would cost more to do the repair than to buy an Internal Combustion Engine complete car.
There is an industry growing where cars are being converted to EVs - often with better performance but worse range than they had when new - As this grows, will it render some of those 80s/90s/00s cars that would be heading for scrap, a new lease of life?
Plenty of You Tube videos of enthusiasts converting cars with Tesla and Toyota parts, will this become a mainstream reality?
There is an industry growing where cars are being converted to EVs - often with better performance but worse range than they had when new - As this grows, will it render some of those 80s/90s/00s cars that would be heading for scrap, a new lease of life?
Plenty of You Tube videos of enthusiasts converting cars with Tesla and Toyota parts, will this become a mainstream reality?
Thing is, the car is still going to rust, the braking system is still going to perish, the headlining is still going to sag, the door handles are still falling off... cars are an engineered product and after 15 years or so keeping them tip top is an uphill battle. Presumably also converting to EV is more expensive than sticking a second hand engine in for example.
iDrive said:
Looking through the thread on Classics left to Rot, there are a good number of (what were in their day) lovely cars, laid aside because of an uneconomic repair required, an "engine out" job that falls between the cracks because it would cost more to do the repair than to buy an Internal Combustion Engine complete car.
There is an industry growing where cars are being converted to EVs - often with better performance but worse range than they had when new - As this grows, will it render some of those 80s/90s/00s cars that would be heading for scrap, a new lease of life?
Plenty of You Tube videos of enthusiasts converting cars with Tesla and Toyota parts, will this become a mainstream reality?
Be interesting to see how the market develops, and how far down the hierarchy it goes. The elderly family Roller might be a candidate but Granny's well preserved shopping trolley?There is an industry growing where cars are being converted to EVs - often with better performance but worse range than they had when new - As this grows, will it render some of those 80s/90s/00s cars that would be heading for scrap, a new lease of life?
Plenty of You Tube videos of enthusiasts converting cars with Tesla and Toyota parts, will this become a mainstream reality?
The realisation that you need serious electrical oomph rather than just an extension lead to put in any sort of a charge might be a limiter for many as well.
HustleRussell said:
Thing is, the car is still going to rust, the braking system is still going to perish, the headlining is still going to sag, the door handles are still falling off... cars are an engineered product and after 15 years or so keeping them tip top is an uphill battle. Presumably also converting to EV is more expensive than sticking a second hand engine in for example.
Agreed, but if you worry about that you're probably not going to be interested in running an old car anyway, irrespective of power source. Dogwatch said:
Be interesting to see how the market develops, and how far down the hierarchy it goes. The elderly family Roller might be a candidate but Granny's well preserved shopping trolley?
The realisation that you need serious electrical oomph rather than just an extension lead to put in any sort of a charge might be a limiter for many as well.
This might surprise you: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...The realisation that you need serious electrical oomph rather than just an extension lead to put in any sort of a charge might be a limiter for many as well.
Check out Vintage Voltage on Quest (Freeview) which follows a company doing EV conversions on classic cars, including Fiat 500 and Land Rover Defender. The Defender was interesting as they kept 4WD too.
The cost of conversion is in the region of £20-£30K which is dependent on things like number of batteries and fabricating adaptors for the existing running gear. Mostly they are developing kits as one offs but the running gear (motor / batteries / controller / charger) are available off the shelf from a number of companies including Tesla.
Once a car has been converted perhaps they’ll be able to produce conversion kits for that model for less, but there’s a base line cost of the components required that’s not cheap. When I looked at building an EV kit car I worked out it would cost at least £15K more than ICE. Maybe you could buy a Leaf and repurpose the components for less though it would be a lot of work.
One interesting service they offered was to keep the old engine on the shelf in case they want to reverse the conversion in future. I doubt anybody ever will as the cars will be worth more EV (given cost of conversion) and all seem to universally drive better.
So basically it wouldn’t be worth converting an old car unless it was a good condition desirable classic anyway. The batteries seem quite modular, so if they fail in future and the car is still desirable they’d be pretty easy to replace but at current costs probably another £10K or so.
The cost of conversion is in the region of £20-£30K which is dependent on things like number of batteries and fabricating adaptors for the existing running gear. Mostly they are developing kits as one offs but the running gear (motor / batteries / controller / charger) are available off the shelf from a number of companies including Tesla.
Once a car has been converted perhaps they’ll be able to produce conversion kits for that model for less, but there’s a base line cost of the components required that’s not cheap. When I looked at building an EV kit car I worked out it would cost at least £15K more than ICE. Maybe you could buy a Leaf and repurpose the components for less though it would be a lot of work.
One interesting service they offered was to keep the old engine on the shelf in case they want to reverse the conversion in future. I doubt anybody ever will as the cars will be worth more EV (given cost of conversion) and all seem to universally drive better.
So basically it wouldn’t be worth converting an old car unless it was a good condition desirable classic anyway. The batteries seem quite modular, so if they fail in future and the car is still desirable they’d be pretty easy to replace but at current costs probably another £10K or so.
I've wondered this myself.
My daily driver is approaching its 17th birthday and 140k miles. However, I really quite enjoy it, I pondered the feasibility of converting it's old diesel power train to electric.
You could remove the engine and gearbox, fuel tank and exhaust. You could fit the motor across the rear axle, batteries in place of the fuel tank and under the floor/engine bay for weight distribution, then replace the fuel filler neck with the charging socket behind the existing fuel door. However when you consider it would cost the best part of £30k, if not more, and the car is worth about £1k, it doesn't seem sensible.
My daily driver is approaching its 17th birthday and 140k miles. However, I really quite enjoy it, I pondered the feasibility of converting it's old diesel power train to electric.
You could remove the engine and gearbox, fuel tank and exhaust. You could fit the motor across the rear axle, batteries in place of the fuel tank and under the floor/engine bay for weight distribution, then replace the fuel filler neck with the charging socket behind the existing fuel door. However when you consider it would cost the best part of £30k, if not more, and the car is worth about £1k, it doesn't seem sensible.
Presumably you will know when it becomes an affordable mainstream alternative proposition to a new EV by the proliferation of Eastern European garages offering conversions just as many outfits popped up to do LPG conversions a few years ago. And I'm not knocking Eastern European engineering, some of the conversions were very very good and brought petrol thirsty classics a new lease of life as affordable LPGs.
I guess I was thinking about the likes of a Bentley Continental, Flying Spur or similar - Cars are in the low to mid teens at the bottom end of the market, a nice car with a broken engine is going to be £10k? Would a £15k EV conversion work?
Just wondering where the market break-even point is - whilst conversion costs are still a little high in commercial premises, they are coming down rapidly.
Just wondering where the market break-even point is - whilst conversion costs are still a little high in commercial premises, they are coming down rapidly.
There's a series running now on 'Quest' (Sky channel 144 and also on Freeview) called 'Vintage Voltage' in which they do just this. I've watched a couple of episodes and they're pretty much the same just a different car, and the quality is down to Satellite TV's usual standard . . . (imho)
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