Discussion
I've been welding with MIG on resto projects for about ten years now.
I'm thinking of having a go at TIG for the lighter more 'important' panel work such as wing repair panels etc.
There's a lot to learn and I've trawled through the MIG Forum a bit, but thought I'd ask on here.
Who else has been down this route and what did you find?.
I've looked at Clarke's range of welders and pondering if its worth going for one of their cheaper ones (sub £150), or splashing out a bit more on the AT165 at about £240.00 .
Are the Clarke torches any good, I notice somebody on the Mig Forum suggesting a Kennedy, which seemed very cheap, but I don't know whats compatible with what.
What size rods are people using for car body?, 1.6mm seems popular.
How quickly do you go through Gas, I've always used the small 600g bottles with Mig, never bothered signing up for the larger ones.
I'm thinking of having a go at TIG for the lighter more 'important' panel work such as wing repair panels etc.
There's a lot to learn and I've trawled through the MIG Forum a bit, but thought I'd ask on here.
Who else has been down this route and what did you find?.
I've looked at Clarke's range of welders and pondering if its worth going for one of their cheaper ones (sub £150), or splashing out a bit more on the AT165 at about £240.00 .
Are the Clarke torches any good, I notice somebody on the Mig Forum suggesting a Kennedy, which seemed very cheap, but I don't know whats compatible with what.
What size rods are people using for car body?, 1.6mm seems popular.
How quickly do you go through Gas, I've always used the small 600g bottles with Mig, never bothered signing up for the larger ones.
You'll burn through one hell of a lot of gas if you're using the tiddly bottles. Get a bottle from Adams gas or Hobbyweld. Unlike BOC there is no yearly fee of anything stupid, just a one-off deposit and then pay per refill.
Although as far as I can tell with Adams gas the deposit is fully refundable, with Hobbyweld there is an "administration charge" and you _need_ the original receipt for the deposit with Hobbyweld. This may be an issue ~10 years down the line if/when you decide to return them (or you might not care by then).
Although as far as I can tell with Adams gas the deposit is fully refundable, with Hobbyweld there is an "administration charge" and you _need_ the original receipt for the deposit with Hobbyweld. This may be an issue ~10 years down the line if/when you decide to return them (or you might not care by then).
Fastdruid said:
and you _need_ the original receipt for the deposit with Hobbyweld. This may be an issue ~10 years down the line if/when you decide to return them (or you might not care by then).
You're correct that there is an admin charge, but I don't recall having to find the original receipt when I took my first one back because a more local supplier had opened up.Can't help on the TIG sorry, I like the idea as it always looks so easy on these TV programmes, but I had read that it's not as good on thin steel as MIG. I think if I upgrade my MIG it's more likely to be for an inverter version for better control.
droopsnoot said:
You're correct that there is an admin charge, but I don't recall having to find the original receipt when I took my first one back because a more local supplier had opened up.
from https://hobbyweld.co.uk/faq/What happens if I lose my copy of the deposit form?
Unfortunately, you will be unable to receive a refund without your original deposit form as proof of purchase. Please keep this safe!
Looking at those Clarke "TiG" welders for £150, like this one
it's just a jumped up arc welder. No gun with a tungsten point, no gas, just a flux covered stick.
You have to go to at least £500 for a true TiG: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/sip-weldmate-hg220...
it's just a jumped up arc welder. No gun with a tungsten point, no gas, just a flux covered stick.
You have to go to at least £500 for a true TiG: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/sip-weldmate-hg220...
Hi.
If you will only be using the TIG set for car repair you are going the wrong route I'm afraid.
TIG welding requires very clean material, unlike MIG or oxy acetylene, and even if the original metal is thoroughly cleaned, impurities such as paint or oil will often have impregnated the metal. This will then make a very rough weld.
I can guarantee that you will very quickly get frustrated with it, and will struggle, unsure what is going wrong or how to improve.
MIG or oxy acetylene are best for vehicles.
Andy.
If you will only be using the TIG set for car repair you are going the wrong route I'm afraid.
TIG welding requires very clean material, unlike MIG or oxy acetylene, and even if the original metal is thoroughly cleaned, impurities such as paint or oil will often have impregnated the metal. This will then make a very rough weld.
I can guarantee that you will very quickly get frustrated with it, and will struggle, unsure what is going wrong or how to improve.
MIG or oxy acetylene are best for vehicles.
Andy.
mkjess12 said:
Hi.
If you will only be using the TIG set for car repair you are going the wrong route I'm afraid.
TIG welding requires very clean material, unlike MIG or oxy acetylene, and even if the original metal is thoroughly cleaned, impurities such as paint or oil will often have impregnated the metal. This will then make a very rough weld.
I can guarantee that you will very quickly get frustrated with it, and will struggle, unsure what is going wrong or how to improve.
MIG or oxy acetylene are best for vehicles.
Andy.
OK, thanks. Sounds like its a no go for me then.If you will only be using the TIG set for car repair you are going the wrong route I'm afraid.
TIG welding requires very clean material, unlike MIG or oxy acetylene, and even if the original metal is thoroughly cleaned, impurities such as paint or oil will often have impregnated the metal. This will then make a very rough weld.
I can guarantee that you will very quickly get frustrated with it, and will struggle, unsure what is going wrong or how to improve.
MIG or oxy acetylene are best for vehicles.
Andy.
The costs look to be climbing too.
I will stick to MIG.
The problem with TIG is that the metal has to be really clean and any contaminants cause real problems. The really cheap machines that mainly do Arc welding will be "scratch start" where you have to tap the electrode to start the arc (which is a PITA and results in loads of tungsten sharpening while you are learning) and lift it away from the workpiece to stop. There is no automated control over gas, so you'll use loads extra as well. The better budget ones offer "lift TIG", which starts the current as you lift the torch, but really you want HF start, which means it starts on a button (or floor pedal) press and you can control the flow of gas afterwards. If all you want to do is weld steel, then a DC machine will be fine and you can get a pretty decent one for around £500, but if you want to do alloy then you need to double that.
The benefit of TIG for car restoration is that you don't need to add a filler material (like MIG wire) when joining panels, so you can work the panel afterwards. This is great if you are building panels and you want to create complex shapes and then put them through an english wheel or something afterwards, but not very useful for the average vehicle restorer who is probably going to create a "good enough" join and then use a touch of filler to make the panel look good before painting. TIG is part of the course here: https://www.contouracademy.com/home
The benefit of TIG for car restoration is that you don't need to add a filler material (like MIG wire) when joining panels, so you can work the panel afterwards. This is great if you are building panels and you want to create complex shapes and then put them through an english wheel or something afterwards, but not very useful for the average vehicle restorer who is probably going to create a "good enough" join and then use a touch of filler to make the panel look good before painting. TIG is part of the course here: https://www.contouracademy.com/home
I'm going to politely disagree with you with regards to using TIG for joining body panels.
When joining aluminium panels to make complex shapes you should be using Oxy Acetylene with a flux. This allows the minimum of excess material to be introduced and the panel is generally annealed evenly. Once the flux has been cleaned off the panel should be promptly hammer and dollied to get the correct shape whilst it's softer. Putting it through the wheeling machine shouldn't be encouraged as it can upset the adjacent areas.
If you TIG the panels together there is often an excess of material on the join, and the Argon gas cools the panel too quickly. The aluminium is then harder and makes the hammer and dolly work awkward. Again the wheeling machine should be avoided but more so with TIG as the adjacent areas will suffer.
The reason that Oxy Acetylene welding of aluminium is not taught on most of the courses is that it's one of the most difficult to do, and produces some very toxic fumes. Sourcing the correct goggles is also difficult as none are certified for this type of welding within the EU.
Andy.
I can recommend the R tech welders. I have the 160DC machine and its a brilliant bit of kit for the money. I took advantage of the 0% finance too so paid around £45 deposit then £35 a month over the next 12 months. Makes it very affordable. They are a UK company too and you get a 3 year collect and return warranty included.
mkjess12 said:
I'm going to politely disagree with you with regards to using TIG for joining body panels.
When joining aluminium panels to make complex shapes you should be using Oxy Acetylene with a flux. This allows the minimum of excess material to be introduced and the panel is generally annealed evenly. Once the flux has been cleaned off the panel should be promptly hammer and dollied to get the correct shape whilst it's softer. Putting it through the wheeling machine shouldn't be encouraged as it can upset the adjacent areas.
If you TIG the panels together there is often an excess of material on the join, and the Argon gas cools the panel too quickly. The aluminium is then harder and makes the hammer and dolly work awkward. Again the wheeling machine should be avoided but more so with TIG as the adjacent areas will suffer.
The reason that Oxy Acetylene welding of aluminium is not taught on most of the courses is that it's one of the most difficult to do, and produces some very toxic fumes. Sourcing the correct goggles is also difficult as none are certified for this type of welding within the EU.
Andy.
I was really referring to steel as that was what I was taught and actually did. The technique Contour teach (for joins where you want to work them) is to TIG without filler, so there is no excess material, and what is there is all the same. It needs very precise panel edges, again emphasising how it's not really for repairs but for making new. When joining aluminium panels to make complex shapes you should be using Oxy Acetylene with a flux. This allows the minimum of excess material to be introduced and the panel is generally annealed evenly. Once the flux has been cleaned off the panel should be promptly hammer and dollied to get the correct shape whilst it's softer. Putting it through the wheeling machine shouldn't be encouraged as it can upset the adjacent areas.
If you TIG the panels together there is often an excess of material on the join, and the Argon gas cools the panel too quickly. The aluminium is then harder and makes the hammer and dolly work awkward. Again the wheeling machine should be avoided but more so with TIG as the adjacent areas will suffer.
The reason that Oxy Acetylene welding of aluminium is not taught on most of the courses is that it's one of the most difficult to do, and produces some very toxic fumes. Sourcing the correct goggles is also difficult as none are certified for this type of welding within the EU.
Andy.
I believe that they suggested that if you want to anneal the aluminium it should be done as a separate process to the welding so that you could control it better, but it was a long time ago and it wasn't something I got to try, so I bow to your expertise on that.
Either way, I think we both agree that TIG is at best an advanced technique used on clean steel and for specific circumstances, and for general car bodywork MIG is faster, easier, and more likely to give good results.
Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff