Finding the age of old (1960s) Michelin tyres
Discussion
I'm wondering if the collective knowledge on here can help me identify the age of some Michelin X tyres please?
I purchased a Facel Vega HK500 21 years ago thinking it would take 6 months to get back on the road (but that's another long story)! It arrived on very old Michelin X tyres that must have been on the car for years and years.
The car was originally the UK demonstrator and led a hard life for the first couple of years at which point it was sold and featured in an Autocar used car test. The mileage was just under 49,000, which was colossal for a two year old car back then.
From late 1961 it went through a couple of owners quite quickly but then stayed with one family until the owner and then his wife died. It was sold as part of the deceased estate as a non runner in 1974. The car has not been driven since and currently shows 59,000 miles. My gut feel says this could be a genuine mileage and the tyres might just help to support that hunch. Whilst they are very old and perished, the tread is hardly worn. If the manufacturing date was sometime in the early 1960s it would suggest the car has not covered too many miles since then and the actual mileage shown could be correct.
So, the tyres in question are Michelin X 6.70 - R15 and they all have what appear to be individual codes stamped in the side walls. I've checked a couple of tyres and the codes are BFD00733 and BFD08575. They were made in England.
Does anyone know how to decode these please. All I can find on the internet is about decoding DOT numbers and these tyres predate that system by many years.
Your help would be much appreciated. I'm intrigued with the car's history and would love to piece it together. The picture shows the car around 1960 in its demonstrator days. You never know, those could be the tyres currently in my garage!
I purchased a Facel Vega HK500 21 years ago thinking it would take 6 months to get back on the road (but that's another long story)! It arrived on very old Michelin X tyres that must have been on the car for years and years.
The car was originally the UK demonstrator and led a hard life for the first couple of years at which point it was sold and featured in an Autocar used car test. The mileage was just under 49,000, which was colossal for a two year old car back then.
From late 1961 it went through a couple of owners quite quickly but then stayed with one family until the owner and then his wife died. It was sold as part of the deceased estate as a non runner in 1974. The car has not been driven since and currently shows 59,000 miles. My gut feel says this could be a genuine mileage and the tyres might just help to support that hunch. Whilst they are very old and perished, the tread is hardly worn. If the manufacturing date was sometime in the early 1960s it would suggest the car has not covered too many miles since then and the actual mileage shown could be correct.
So, the tyres in question are Michelin X 6.70 - R15 and they all have what appear to be individual codes stamped in the side walls. I've checked a couple of tyres and the codes are BFD00733 and BFD08575. They were made in England.
Does anyone know how to decode these please. All I can find on the internet is about decoding DOT numbers and these tyres predate that system by many years.
Your help would be much appreciated. I'm intrigued with the car's history and would love to piece it together. The picture shows the car around 1960 in its demonstrator days. You never know, those could be the tyres currently in my garage!
So are you thinking that the car might still be shod with the tyres that it left the factory with? My guess is that it is far more likely that it in those first couple of years it would have had at least two replacement sets and in which case it could be the last set of replacements that it is still sitting on. As a demonstrator, and especially so for such a top of the range car, I don't think for one moment that they would have been sending it out looking otherwise than perfect, including tyres.
Fascinating history by the way, good luck piecing it together and make sure you post updates.
Fascinating history by the way, good luck piecing it together and make sure you post updates.
Thanks for the responses so far.
Keep It Stiff: I'm sure the car will have gone through several sets of tyres as a demonstrator...360bhp (gross) and an open diff suggest the life of the rears would have been severely limited! The stories of exploits in the car in the Martin Buckley Facel book and the fact that the tops of the pistons had met the valves at some stage imply that you would not have wanted to be a rear tyre on this car!!
Scrump: I was actually hoping that someone on here does or did work for Michelin and would be able to decipher the code.
Keep It Stiff: I'm sure the car will have gone through several sets of tyres as a demonstrator...360bhp (gross) and an open diff suggest the life of the rears would have been severely limited! The stories of exploits in the car in the Martin Buckley Facel book and the fact that the tops of the pistons had met the valves at some stage imply that you would not have wanted to be a rear tyre on this car!!
Scrump: I was actually hoping that someone on here does or did work for Michelin and would be able to decipher the code.
I'd be interested in what you discover, OP. My Lancia Appia arrived on ancient Michelins that look to be from the 1960s. It now has new Pirelli Cinturatos of the correct period style. I may see if anyone in the LMC wants the Michelins as show tyres.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 2nd September 19:18
No idea about the coding but the Michelin ZX replaced the X in 1968 (according to Longstone Tyres). I wonder how easy it was to source Xs after that, until such time as there was an interest in 'classic' tyres?
Great cars, havent seen one on the road for ages, but then perhaps you haven't either
Great cars, havent seen one on the road for ages, but then perhaps you haven't either
Goodwood Revival in 2018 was the place to be for Facel spotting...
The UK club invited the Amicale Facel (French club) over for a long weekend. The turnout was impressive...I think there were 37 Facels at Goodwood that day. I doubt that there will ever be that many together again on UK soil, but would love to be proved wrong as it was a great occasion.
Sadly, my car was not among them.
The UK club invited the Amicale Facel (French club) over for a long weekend. The turnout was impressive...I think there were 37 Facels at Goodwood that day. I doubt that there will ever be that many together again on UK soil, but would love to be proved wrong as it was a great occasion.
Sadly, my car was not among them.
TarquinMX5 said:
No idea about the coding but the Michelin ZX replaced the X in 1968 (according to Longstone Tyres). I wonder how easy it was to source Xs after that, until such time as there was an interest in 'classic' tyres?
I seem to remember well into the 80s Michelin X tyres (125 SR 15) were still OEM fitment for 2CVs.Fair comment, although the 2CV ones were radial, whereas the 6.70 (Facel) were crossply (presumably, based on the tyre sizing) and I assumed it meant that the X crossply was replaced in 1968. Having said that, I always thought that the X was radial.
There is a Michelin Classic email address: pneuretro@michelin.com that might be able to assist the OP
Off topic, but hard to imagine that those 2CV wheels/tyres are smaller than many modern space-savers, where provided.
There is a Michelin Classic email address: pneuretro@michelin.com that might be able to assist the OP
Off topic, but hard to imagine that those 2CV wheels/tyres are smaller than many modern space-savers, where provided.
Edited by TarquinMX5 on Thursday 3rd September 16:20
Edited by TarquinMX5 on Thursday 3rd September 16:33
TarquinMX5 said:
Fair comment, although the 2CV ones were radial, whereas the 6.70 (Facel) were crossply and I assumed it meant that the X crossply was replaced in 1968.
The Facel's tyres were not crossply. Michelin used the "X" to denote the steel-breaker radial ply tyre so there's no such thing as an X crossply.Around that time Michelin had two tread patterns, the "stop" with its well-known zig-zag tread centre and the "rib" which looked much more ordinary, but worked well on such cars as AC Aces. I had rib pattern on my 1950 Lea-Francis Sports in the 1960s.
This link shows 670.15 as pre-1964.
https://www.cokertire.com/blog/tire-size-cross-ref...
Is it accurate, who knows?
https://www.cokertire.com/blog/tire-size-cross-ref...
Is it accurate, who knows?
Well, I emailed Michelin and have had no acknowledgement or reply, which is a shame. So the best information so far seems to come from the Coker tyres site.
The condition of the wheels that the tyres are still mounted on would suggest they haven't been on the road for a very long time, so a last production date of 1964 for the 6.70 X is very plausible.
Tarquin MX5, thanks again for the info and thanks to everyone who responded.
The condition of the wheels that the tyres are still mounted on would suggest they haven't been on the road for a very long time, so a last production date of 1964 for the 6.70 X is very plausible.
Tarquin MX5, thanks again for the info and thanks to everyone who responded.
theadman said:
Well, I emailed Michelin and have had no acknowledgement or reply, which is a shame. So the best information so far seems to come from the Coker tyres site.
The condition of the wheels that the tyres are still mounted on would suggest they haven't been on the road for a very long time, so a last production date of 1964 for the 6.70 X is very plausible.
Tarquin MX5, thanks again for the info and thanks to everyone who responded.
Have you spoken to Martin ? He is a lovely guy and I’m sure would Love to speak to you re your car and it’s Michelin’s. I can put you in touch if you like ?The condition of the wheels that the tyres are still mounted on would suggest they haven't been on the road for a very long time, so a last production date of 1964 for the 6.70 X is very plausible.
Tarquin MX5, thanks again for the info and thanks to everyone who responded.
1. That's a very kind offer to the OP.
2. I am such a nerd that I find this thread very interesting. Ikr.
3. I am, amongst other things, an apostrophe nerd, so please take this in the helpful and positive spirit in which it is intended: - The possessive "its" never has an apostrophe, and the plural form of a noun, such as "Michelins", never has an apostrophe. The rule about apostrophes is super easy to memorise: an apostrophe is only used when one or more characters has been deliberately omitted. Thus, when "it is" is compressed to "it's" by the deliberate omission of the second letter "i", it's time for its to get its apostrophe. I hope that you see what I did there. I hope also that it stops raining, so that we can all have a weekend of classic car driving.
2. I am such a nerd that I find this thread very interesting. Ikr.
3. I am, amongst other things, an apostrophe nerd, so please take this in the helpful and positive spirit in which it is intended: - The possessive "its" never has an apostrophe, and the plural form of a noun, such as "Michelins", never has an apostrophe. The rule about apostrophes is super easy to memorise: an apostrophe is only used when one or more characters has been deliberately omitted. Thus, when "it is" is compressed to "it's" by the deliberate omission of the second letter "i", it's time for its to get its apostrophe. I hope that you see what I did there. I hope also that it stops raining, so that we can all have a weekend of classic car driving.
Have you tried speaking to Dougal at Longstone Tyres?
They are specialists in Classic & vintage tyres and even have a page specifically for your car:
https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres...
They are specialists in Classic & vintage tyres and even have a page specifically for your car:
https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres...
theadman said:
Well, I emailed Michelin and have had no acknowledgement or reply, which is a shame. So the best information so far seems to come from the Coker tyres site.
The condition of the wheels that the tyres are still mounted on would suggest they haven't been on the road for a very long time, so a last production date of 1964 for the 6.70 X is very plausible.
Tarquin MX5, thanks again for the info and thanks to everyone who responded.
The condition of the wheels that the tyres are still mounted on would suggest they haven't been on the road for a very long time, so a last production date of 1964 for the 6.70 X is very plausible.
Tarquin MX5, thanks again for the info and thanks to everyone who responded.
austin said:
Have you tried speaking to Dougal at Longstone Tyres?
They are specialists in Classic & vintage tyres and even have a page specifically for your car:
https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres...
My thoughts too! - With their knowledge of classic car tyres, I would think they might know what the Michelin tyre code reads.They are specialists in Classic & vintage tyres and even have a page specifically for your car:
https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres...
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