Can you make an unreliable car reliable?
Discussion
Hi all,
I've owned my "classic" for 10 years now but the past few years are starting to get to me...
The car itself is only a 1958 beetle so nothing fancy. It's my pride and joy, however, and the social side is a big thing in my life.
The car itself is testing my patience...
The first 6 years were great. I could (and did) drive anywhere. Then I had a big breakdown and it all went wrong.
I've had a new engine built but there are constant issues. There seems to be problems every time i drive it and I keep throwing money at it. It's not all engine related and includes the clutch and brakes...basically anything. Will I ever make it reliable again?
Cheer me up. I'm hoping someone has turned an unlucky car into a lucky one...
I've owned my "classic" for 10 years now but the past few years are starting to get to me...
The car itself is only a 1958 beetle so nothing fancy. It's my pride and joy, however, and the social side is a big thing in my life.
The car itself is testing my patience...
The first 6 years were great. I could (and did) drive anywhere. Then I had a big breakdown and it all went wrong.
I've had a new engine built but there are constant issues. There seems to be problems every time i drive it and I keep throwing money at it. It's not all engine related and includes the clutch and brakes...basically anything. Will I ever make it reliable again?
Cheer me up. I'm hoping someone has turned an unlucky car into a lucky one...
I have a 40 year old VW air-cooled camper. I use it regularly and touch wood it is getting more and more reliable. I am an extremely amateur mechanic so will tackle some stuff but I have thrown some money at it, but it's always worth it for the enjoyment.
Luckily we have never been stranded, but have needed to take the long way home to avoid a steep hill when the carbs were playing up. Been down into France a few times too.
Find a good specialist - I have a couple of small backstreet garages near me who are excellent and know their way round it without ripping me off. Gold. They are relatively simple so the unreliability 'should' be easy to put right for the long term...
Luckily we have never been stranded, but have needed to take the long way home to avoid a steep hill when the carbs were playing up. Been down into France a few times too.
Find a good specialist - I have a couple of small backstreet garages near me who are excellent and know their way round it without ripping me off. Gold. They are relatively simple so the unreliability 'should' be easy to put right for the long term...
Thank you for the reply.
My thinking was pretty much as per your first paragraph; the more I used it, the more reliable it would get...it hasn't been quite like that
Or am I in the teething stage?
I have a good garage and specialist bodyshop. My car is almost a joke. They just can't believe the run of bad luck. I'm starting to lose confidence in the car which I don't want to do.
Does throwing money at a car ever fix it in the longterm?
My thinking was pretty much as per your first paragraph; the more I used it, the more reliable it would get...it hasn't been quite like that
Or am I in the teething stage?I have a good garage and specialist bodyshop. My car is almost a joke. They just can't believe the run of bad luck. I'm starting to lose confidence in the car which I don't want to do.
Does throwing money at a car ever fix it in the longterm?
By the age you mention it’s probably been restored at some point in its life, at this time many of the parts would have been changed. It may just be that those parts are coming to the end of their life and as they were all changed during the restoration they are all failing within a small timeframe.
Classics are great but they need much more regular tinkering and checking. Some of the service intervals on mine are in the low 1000 miles but I do it much more regularly, perhaps learn to do a little yourself rather than using a garage (big assumption that you are not already doing this) and you could may any potential issues before they happen.
It’s a simple car but if it’s got new parts fitted they don’t tend to last as long as the bits it left the factory with.
Classics are great but they need much more regular tinkering and checking. Some of the service intervals on mine are in the low 1000 miles but I do it much more regularly, perhaps learn to do a little yourself rather than using a garage (big assumption that you are not already doing this) and you could may any potential issues before they happen.
It’s a simple car but if it’s got new parts fitted they don’t tend to last as long as the bits it left the factory with.
My VW camper started out as the most unreliable thing I owned- it literally broke down every single time I used it in the first few months of owning it. I almost threw in the towel. Then I found a local guy to look after it and things improved. It was still a case of drive it, it breaks, fix whatever bit was broken and repeat.
Now it's one of the most reliable things I own, especially as if anything looks remotely suspect I get it swapped out. The only thing to watch with VW parts is shonky replacement items. I had to replace the fuel pump twice because the fuel pump that was installed when the first one failed was some dodgy no brand thing that also failed about a year later.
I now use the camper as the example that old cars can be made reliable, and so far, the experience holds true for other classics.
Now it's one of the most reliable things I own, especially as if anything looks remotely suspect I get it swapped out. The only thing to watch with VW parts is shonky replacement items. I had to replace the fuel pump twice because the fuel pump that was installed when the first one failed was some dodgy no brand thing that also failed about a year later.
I now use the camper as the example that old cars can be made reliable, and so far, the experience holds true for other classics.
Almost anything from the 1930s onwards (and some earlier stuff) can be made reliable, but first it needs to be restored to as new mechanical condition, electrical circuits and components updated wherever possible, design faults causing such problems as fuel vaporisation, carburettor icing etc eradicated, and then properly maintained.
With patience, and money, you can probably turn a dud into a good car, but you have to do as John Locke says. This is why buying a fixer upper is usually daft, and buying a car that some other mug has spaffed all the cash on is a better plan. But many of us still buy fixer uppers ...
Most of the cool old cars that people like to own were only designed to last about ten years, and now they are decades old. Keeping them going has to be a pretty much constant labour of love. The high end cars that were designed to last longer were also intended to be owned by people with cash, and to have almost constant maintenance from new.
Most of the cool old cars that people like to own were only designed to last about ten years, and now they are decades old. Keeping them going has to be a pretty much constant labour of love. The high end cars that were designed to last longer were also intended to be owned by people with cash, and to have almost constant maintenance from new.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 26th September 06:17
I had a two TR6's where the PI systems were rebuilt by the 'UK's leading light', one never ever ran right, even after many £'s and months of work. The other was a complete joy.
In the end, with the duff one, he had to admit that is was just 'poor design/concept/execution by Lucas and Triumph and that was that!
If I were to own a TR6 again (great usable cars BTW) I would pop a BMW 3.0 straight engine in it......
In the end, with the duff one, he had to admit that is was just 'poor design/concept/execution by Lucas and Triumph and that was that!
If I were to own a TR6 again (great usable cars BTW) I would pop a BMW 3.0 straight engine in it......
Honestly you’re just introducing more expensive failure modes there. The Triumph engine is bullet-proof (by old engine standards) provided you pin the thrust washers and fit a modern oil-filter. Lucas PI is very reliable provided that a. there are no air leaks, and b. you fit a modern ‘Bosch’ pump capable of reliably delivering high pressure fuel, in the correct place below the fuel tank (Lucas pumps can ‘suck’ fuel up, when they work, but Bosch pumps must have flood-feed). I think a growing problem in classics is the volatility of modern fuel causing vapourisation etc in fuel feeds.
Shezbo said:
I had a two TR6's where the PI systems were rebuilt by the 'UK's leading light', one never ever ran right, even after many £'s and months of work. The other was a complete joy.
In the end, with the duff one, he had to admit that is was just 'poor design/concept/execution by Lucas and Triumph and that was that!
If I were to own a TR6 again (great usable cars BTW) I would pop a BMW 3.0 straight engine in it......
Not sure which "leading light" you refer to but all the ones I've found have been pretty dim. For the Lucas PI system to work, it needs everything to be set within tolerance, otherwise, there is no (negligible) compensation system to correct it. Dropping a BMW engine in just moves your problems elsewhere in the car - rear end, chassis, suspension, brakes. The TR6 doesn't need to be a fast car to be fun and even with carbs, they are OK if sorting the PI is beyond economical.In the end, with the duff one, he had to admit that is was just 'poor design/concept/execution by Lucas and Triumph and that was that!
If I were to own a TR6 again (great usable cars BTW) I would pop a BMW 3.0 straight engine in it......
Anybody ever buy a new house?
Back in the day, after a few years all the light bulbs would blow at roughly the same time because they reached the end of their service life. You made sure you had a bunch of suitable spares.
In 20 years of ownership, my Saab has never failed to get me home, even though it has broken down a few times. I carry some relevant spares in the boot, including an airflow meter, coolant hoses and ignition parts as well as oil and water, so I can fix many things at the side of the road. I can't mitigate for every scenario but I can prepare for some.
I think you just have to accept all your light bulbs are blowing at the moment and weather the storm.
Back in the day, after a few years all the light bulbs would blow at roughly the same time because they reached the end of their service life. You made sure you had a bunch of suitable spares.
In 20 years of ownership, my Saab has never failed to get me home, even though it has broken down a few times. I carry some relevant spares in the boot, including an airflow meter, coolant hoses and ignition parts as well as oil and water, so I can fix many things at the side of the road. I can't mitigate for every scenario but I can prepare for some.
I think you just have to accept all your light bulbs are blowing at the moment and weather the storm.
Evoluzione said:
You need a lot of patience, a lot of money and the right people to put it to good use.
Classic car ownership isn't for everyone, if it's the social side you like then consider jumping to something more modern. Later model MX5s spring immediately to mind, but there are many others.
But a late-model MX5 is boring, and hasn't a tenth of the charm of a death-trap '58 beetle.Classic car ownership isn't for everyone, if it's the social side you like then consider jumping to something more modern. Later model MX5s spring immediately to mind, but there are many others.
I've tried to think of it as a balancing act, similar to a walking the tight rope: if you "improve" or "fix" something, it'll put " new" stress on another component in the system, which will likely increase the chance of that failing. Eventually, you'll replace all those parts, & you'll get a reliable car: until then, it's a bit of a gremlin chasing exercise.
MarkwG said:
I've tried to think of it as a balancing act, similar to a walking the tight rope: if you "improve" or "fix" something, it'll put " new" stress on another component in the system, which will likely increase the chance of that failing. Eventually, you'll replace all those parts, & you'll get a reliable car: until then, it's a bit of a gremlin chasing exercise.
It is, in my experience as the owner of a 57 year old Riley, a never-ending process. Fix one problem and another arises, replace one part and another wears out. It's part of the 'charm' of driving a car that required regular and often frequent maintenance when new and still does today.Another thing to bear in mind, if you own a car long term like that, is that time telescopes. I was checking a wheel bearing on the Triumph last week while thinking “it can’t be knackered, I only fitted it recently”, and realising that “recently” was in 1997. 
Edited by Yertis on Saturday 26th September 15:25
Some interesting points, thanks.
The assumption that I rely 100% on a garage is correct. I keep meaning to try things myself but a lack of time (two young kids) and space makes it tricky. I'm not bad at DIY but for some reason get nervous when thinking about doing something on the car - even though I often successfully diagnose the issue myself. I am, however, going to start this going forward for more simple things.
I've also been the victim of parts failure; currently off the road due to the release bearings going after less than 200 miles.
I definitely think I'm at the "fix one thing and chasing the next thing which will no doubt break". It does make me feel better that others have got out the other side with a reliable car.
...luckily the wife is very understanding!
The assumption that I rely 100% on a garage is correct. I keep meaning to try things myself but a lack of time (two young kids) and space makes it tricky. I'm not bad at DIY but for some reason get nervous when thinking about doing something on the car - even though I often successfully diagnose the issue myself. I am, however, going to start this going forward for more simple things.
I've also been the victim of parts failure; currently off the road due to the release bearings going after less than 200 miles.
I definitely think I'm at the "fix one thing and chasing the next thing which will no doubt break". It does make me feel better that others have got out the other side with a reliable car.
...luckily the wife is very understanding!
Riley Blue said:
It is, in my experience as the owner of a 57 year old Riley, a never-ending process. Fix one problem and another arises, replace one part and another wears out. It's part of the 'charm' of driving a car that required regular and often frequent maintenance when new and still does today.
Can my 57 year old Lancia please meet your 57 year old Riley? Keeping these cars going is great!Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff