Your worst classic to work on and maintain?
Discussion
Sort of tying into the rant thread, what has been a classic car (I'll impose a 1990 cut off date) that you have owned or worked on that you got absolutely no pleasure from when breaking out the spanners. Poor access to components, some parts wearing out with annoying regularity, hard to get replacement parts etc. I am not talking about simply unreliable cars, but the ones that were just a right PITA to work on.
Personally I can't say I have one although my 1984 Lotus Esprit Turbo has always been daunting, but having recently done an engine and gearbox out major recommissioning I have become much more familiar with it and its not been too bad. But I do have to dive into the dashboard soon for HVAC and cable replacement......
Personally I can't say I have one although my 1984 Lotus Esprit Turbo has always been daunting, but having recently done an engine and gearbox out major recommissioning I have become much more familiar with it and its not been too bad. But I do have to dive into the dashboard soon for HVAC and cable replacement......
geeman237 said:
Sort of tying into the rant thread, what has been a classic car (I'll impose a 1990 cut off date) that you have owned or worked on that you got absolutely no pleasure from when breaking out the spanners. Poor access to components, some parts wearing out with annoying regularity, hard to get replacement parts etc. I am not talking about simply unreliable cars, but the ones that were just a right PITA to work on.
Personally I can't say I have one although my 1984 Lotus Esprit Turbo has always been daunting, but having recently done an engine and gearbox out major recommissioning I have become much more familiar with it and its not been too bad. But I do have to dive into the dashboard soon for HVAC and cable replacement......
Esprit dash is not as bad as you might think. A lot of work, but logical and not many easily breakable parts. Could have longer wiring for the gauges and dash lights, though.. Good instructions for the job in the forums. That said, when I saw the title of this thread, I immediately thought about my Esprit... It is actually pretty easy maintain, but every job takes twice the time of another classic car and hurts... My definition of a Lotus-position. A position that you can get the job done, but it takes twice the time it should and hurts so much that if it hurt any more, you would give up on the job. The only car that I have, that pretty much any work on the engine starts with putting the knee pads on...Personally I can't say I have one although my 1984 Lotus Esprit Turbo has always been daunting, but having recently done an engine and gearbox out major recommissioning I have become much more familiar with it and its not been too bad. But I do have to dive into the dashboard soon for HVAC and cable replacement......
P.s. Currently in the process of changing the timing belt..
Edited by Finlandese on Tuesday 25th January 11:41
Edited by Finlandese on Tuesday 25th January 12:08
Skyedriver said:
Lotobear said:
Classic Mini, end of thread.
With you on that one.I've had a few over the years and almost every job, without fail, becomes a pain. Rust, sharp edges, inaccessibility, poor design.
Skyedriver said:
Lotobear said:
Classic Mini, end of thread.
With you on that one.I've had a few over the years and almost every job, without fail, becomes a pain. Rust, sharp edges, inaccessibility, poor design.
I know it's largely an unavoidable result of the Mini's design criteria (use an existing engine in a 10x4x4ft box, of which only 2ft of length can be for the powertrain) but it doesn't make them any easier or more pleasant to work on! And there's no excusing the awful access to many of the bolts and fixings, or the seemingly random choice of bolt sizes and so on.
While by no means the worst, I'd put my 2CV in the running for 'most frustrating' for one very specific reason - the front wings. The whole 'deal' with the 2CV is that the front wings are held on by four large nuts (the same as the wheel nuts so you can take them off with the wheelbrace) so in theory you just spin those nuts off, lift the wing away and, presto, excellent access to the entire drivetrain. And that's exactly how it is if you have an early 'ripple bonnet' 2CV, where the front end consists just of the front wings and the bonnet, with the bonnet pressing including the side panels that meet the wingtops. My 1980s 2CV has the later front end where those side panels are separate 'A panels' which stay in place when you lift the bonnet. To get the wings off you have to undo three 10mm bolts which hold these A panels on, two of which go into captive nuts welded inside a cavity on the bulkhead. Then you have to unplug the wiring for the front indicators and side repeaters (not present on the original design), then undo the wing retaining nuts and then manoeuver the wing away from the wheel past the front overriders (also not part of the original).
None of this is exactly tricky, but it's the definition of 'faff' and so many things on a even a late 2CV are located on the assumption that you can just whip the wings off - valve clearances, oil filter, spark plugs. With the wings off it's blissfully simple to get to everything - it's the contrast with how fiddly it is to get the wings on and off that makes it so frustrating. Plus, from the factory 2CVs have a plate between the chassis legs under the engine. So any tools, screws, sockets, clips etc. you drop from the top go there and don't make it into the floor. So there have been quite a few bouts of blue language when I've just been doing a simple job in the upper reaches of the engine bay and something's slipped down there, so now you have to take the wing off to get it out. Not a problem on the replacement galvanised chassis since it doesn't have the bottom plate, but it used to be the sort of thing that turned a quick adjustment or swap into a long and tricky operation.
2xChevrons said:
Skyedriver said:
Lotobear said:
Classic Mini, end of thread.
With you on that one.I've had a few over the years and almost every job, without fail, becomes a pain. Rust, sharp edges, inaccessibility, poor design.
I know it's largely an unavoidable result of the Mini's design criteria (use an existing engine in a 10x4x4ft box, of which only 2ft of length can be for the powertrain) but it doesn't make them any easier or more pleasant to work on! And there's no excusing the awful access to many of the bolts and fixings, or the seemingly random choice of bolt sizes and so on.
While by no means the worst, I'd put my 2CV in the running for 'most frustrating' for one very specific reason - the front wings. The whole 'deal' with the 2CV is that the front wings are held on by four large nuts (the same as the wheel nuts so you can take them off with the wheelbrace) so in theory you just spin those nuts off, lift the wing away and, presto, excellent access to the entire drivetrain. And that's exactly how it is if you have an early 'ripple bonnet' 2CV, where the front end consists just of the front wings and the bonnet, with the bonnet pressing including the side panels that meet the wingtops. My 1980s 2CV has the later front end where those side panels are separate 'A panels' which stay in place when you lift the bonnet. To get the wings off you have to undo three 10mm bolts which hold these A panels on, two of which go into captive nuts welded inside a cavity on the bulkhead. Then you have to unplug the wiring for the front indicators and side repeaters (not present on the original design), then undo the wing retaining nuts and then manoeuver the wing away from the wheel past the front overriders (also not part of the original).
None of this is exactly tricky, but it's the definition of 'faff' and so many things on a even a late 2CV are located on the assumption that you can just whip the wings off - valve clearances, oil filter, spark plugs. With the wings off it's blissfully simple to get to everything - it's the contrast with how fiddly it is to get the wings on and off that makes it so frustrating. Plus, from the factory 2CVs have a plate between the chassis legs under the engine. So any tools, screws, sockets, clips etc. you drop from the top go there and don't make it into the floor. So there have been quite a few bouts of blue language when I've just been doing a simple job in the upper reaches of the engine bay and something's slipped down there, so now you have to take the wing off to get it out. Not a problem on the replacement galvanised chassis since it doesn't have the bottom plate, but it used to be the sort of thing that turned a quick adjustment or swap into a long and tricky operation.
I'll accept a latter 2Cv lost its easy 'repair ability', (I have a AK400 van), but I'll raise you a Citroen SM. want to change the battery - remove the nose cone underside and maneuver it out. you could remove the wing, easy two bolts job - apart from the self leveling headlights and steering headlight system (which is hydraulic!) Oh and better get an elevated platform to lie on, cos otherwise your back is busted!
Later 2CV - it's called "progress"
Alfa - inboard discs - I give you the inboard Jaguar inboard discs o the TVR Wedges
Mini - countless scars on my arms, hands and top of head off the bonnet spear. Particular incident, our wedding, Wife tries to slip the ring onto my finger but the previous day I'd been doing something around the rear suspension or brakes and sliced the knuckle. As she's pushing on the ring I'm trying to stop the bleeding.
Alfa - inboard discs - I give you the inboard Jaguar inboard discs o the TVR Wedges
Mini - countless scars on my arms, hands and top of head off the bonnet spear. Particular incident, our wedding, Wife tries to slip the ring onto my finger but the previous day I'd been doing something around the rear suspension or brakes and sliced the knuckle. As she's pushing on the ring I'm trying to stop the bleeding.
2xChevrons said:
2cv stuff
Interesting. It's perspective isn't it. The first old car I fiddled around with (engine swap) was a 2CV and I just thought that's how cars were, if anything it was easier than I expected. I've mainly been a Triumph bloke and they don't get easier. Even the TR6 isn't difficult to work on. Quattro is a bit more challenging though...
I'm going to chuck my Calibra in the ring. Not quite as classic as most on here but it's on classic car insurance so I say it stands. Now, give it some credit, access to most parts is alright if a little bit fiddly. The major problem? Part availability. It's in that limbo section between old Vauxhall and classic status so nobody is producing parts for it and we're left scavenging for parts to make it work. Case in point, I need a new PAS cooler. It's literally a bent piece of pipe. No radiator, no magic, nothing but a bit of pipe bent into a long, flat "T" shape. Can you get one? No. Literally impossible. I've gone to 3 hydraulic hose/pipe manufacturers and none of them have got anything to suit. Most 2nd hand ones are the same as mine and made entirely of rotten metal. Those that aren't ruined or can't be seen (eBay listings for the full car breaking etc) never seem to respond. Even AutoDoc let me down and they can find anything! Really bloody frustrating. Upon removal of the radiator to get to said cooler, I punctured the radiator. Can you get a new one of them? Can you fairy cakes. There are tonnes for the smaller engine models but the V6 needs at least a 35mm thick core. They're made of unobtanium. I even spoke to some local radiator re-core companies who do automotive stuff and they refused. Spiffing.
TLDR: Vauxhall Calibra. Access is alright, parts availability an absolute nightmare.
TLDR: Vauxhall Calibra. Access is alright, parts availability an absolute nightmare.
MadDad said:
Rover P6 inward rear brakes - prepare to remove lots of skin from your knuckles and split the tips of your thumbs winding the pistons back in. Under the bonnet isn't much better, simple engine but zero room to work on it......
I was going to say the P6 as well. Mind you, not as bad as an old XJ!I was fortunate that my classics were both Triumph Vitesses - so easy to work on. Even a clutch change could be done in well under an hour.
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