Classic car definition

[Lost ranger]

When did 'classic car' stop meaning an example of a classic design and start meaning an individual car that's lasted a surprisingly long time without being scrapped.

In the early 80s owners of old cars seemed to feel they had to rationalise their choice by explaining that it was actually a 'classic'. I distinctly remember a letter in one of the magazines of the time, 'Old Motor' perhaps, saying something like 'at this rate we'll have people arguing a Cortina is a classic as the last mainstream RWD family saloon'.

Now of course, any Cortina does count as a classic car,

I have nothing against anyone preserving any old car they happen to like, or even preferring old cars in general. Would it would be nice to distinguish between the two types of classic.

[lowdrag]

This old chestnut once again. The definition of a "classic car" has eventually boiled down and been accepted by the majority of Europe (UK excluded) to be based on the UNESCO decision that something "collectable" was anything over 30 years old. In France, My replica was built in 1988, so more than 30 years old and as such benefiting from a classic V5 and an MOT every five years. In the UK the DVLA analysed the average mileage of old cars and found that those over 40 years old averaged 500 miles per annum, hence the MOT exclusion and historic definition. Whether that fits in with your or anyone else's personal feelings on the matter is I suppose, of no further importance, since it is a fait accompli. But it does mean that in Europe a McLaren F1 now is a classic car, as are the Jaguar XJ220 and the Honda NSX, whereas in the UK a Mitsubishi Starion and a Sierra would now qualify.

Edited by lowdrag on Tuesday 12th July 09:15

[nicanary]

.........and according to a couple of classic car shows I've attended recently, we can include Z4, C63, A5 cabrio and many, many MINIs. Plus of course any MX5 of any vintage. Proud owners, I suppose.

[Allan L]

In the UK we had the VSCC and the VCC giving a lead by defining the cars their Members regarded as interesting: Both started by including all cars before a certain date (VSCC 1931; VCC 1919) and the VSCC later had a list of Post Vintage Troroughbred cars which were either continuation production or "in the spirit"
Cars of the 1930s not on the PVT list are now widely accepted as Classic, having been ignored for half a century, but even now it's easy to understand why some cars never made that list. Nevertheless I think our attitude, whether we are members or not, is still influenced by those Clubs.
On a personal note, I find it hard to think that a bottom of the range car which I remember being introduced (e.g. 100E Ford) should be a Classic. . .

[Milkyway]

Era Definitions; According to Wiki & Google.
But it’s a good starting point.

Up to 1904: Veteran
1905 - 1918: Edwardian
1919 - 1930: Vintage.
1931 - 1979: Antique
( Never heard of ‘Practical Antiques’ relating to the car world though).

This where is starts to go off the rails a bit;

1980 - 1997* Classic... but open to debate.
( *Some say ...25+ years old).

So I’ve owned an Antique, but nearly all of my cars have been ‘classics’.
(It used to be so simple)

Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 12th July 14:09

[//j17]

Ah, date-based definitions.

Nothing like a rule that says the car with chassic number 12345 (last completed before the Christmas shut-down) is a Veteran/Edwardian/Vintage/Antique/Other but the identical car with chassis number 12346 (first off the line the first day back in the New Year) isn't and is something completely different.

[Milkyway]

//j17 said:

Ah, date-based definitions.

Nothing like a rule that says the car with chassic number 12345 (last completed before the Christmas shut-down) is a Veteran/Edwardian/Vintage/Antique/Other but the identical car with chassis number 12346 (first off the line the first day back in the New Year) isn't and is something completely different.

As they say, the newest thing on any new car... is the number plate.
( Confused.com)

Eg;
1997 (Classic): Late ‘P’ or ‘R’ reg.
1998: (Post Classic): Still ‘R’ reg...until Aug 1st.
( Same car though)

Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 12th July 12:49

[Turbobanana]

Does anybody really care?

If an insurance company wants to offer preferential rates for a car that's a bit old, or slightly unusual, or rare, or not used very often - then that's fine. If a member of the public looks at an older car and goes "Ooh, I like that" or "My dad used to have one of those" or "They don't build 'em like that anymore" - fill your boots. No manufacturer that I'm aware of set out to make a classic car: they became that because of the public's (or enthusiasts') perception of them. A Morris Minor was white goods when new.

We seem to live in a world where everything needs to have a label.

[lowdrag]

I started out by giving how things work today, but all kinds of people now use the definition "collectable". Well, that could be anything from bottle tops to bog rolls I suppose, and many insurers start at 10 years of age for insurance purposes. SAGA did for my Mercedes W203 for example. But you can't register a car as a classic in France unless you can prove it was built at least thirty years ago, and that is how most of Europe see it today. I hear that Spain is getting difficult and I know that in Greece you can only drive your car on certain days each month. In the UK it is 40 years of age to qualify for historic status. I have stopped going to "Classic car meets" since the last time, out of forty cars present, only three were of the last century. Loads of Porsches, Corvettes (I don't think paddle shift cars quite qualify in my mind) and Beemers, but one Morris 1100, one MGB, and me. Also, while I love the VSCC and the work they do, they are a club and don't write the law. Maybe I am a Luddite, but that's the way I see it. And the Z4 came out in 2002. In another twenty years it can be a historic, if they keep it that long.

[CRA1G]

I seem to here the term "Modern Classic" used more these days,I would certainly use that description for my little BMW collection.

[KarlMac]

nicanary said:

.........and according to a couple of classic car shows I've attended recently, we can include Z4, C63, A5 cabrio and many, many MINIs. Plus of course any MX5 of any vintage. Proud owners, I suppose.

Now your falling into the odd category that is ‘modern classics’. Stuff from the 90s/00s that the owners are desperately hoping balloon in price linked with more traditional historic classics.

Another complication I think is most insurers offering ‘classic’ insurance to anything over 25 years old. It would be interesting if this was changed to 40 years (like the mot standards etc…) and what that does to ‘survivor’ cars from the 90s that definitely aren’t classics.

Edited by KarlMac on Tuesday 12th July 13:30

[//j17]

lowdrag said:

I have stopped going to "Classic car meets" since the last time, out of forty cars present, only three were of the last century...And the Z4 came out in 2002. In another twenty years it can be a historic, if they keep it that long.

To put the other point of view I bought my 1973 Triumph Spitfire in 1993 and it was generally considered a 'classic' at that time. But my car looked almost exactly the same as one that would have rolled off the production line in 1980 and that car would also have been considered a 'classic' but would only have been 13 years old!

I think a lot of people struggle with 90s and newer cars being classics because, well they were actually well made and so remained common sights on the road a lot longer than those that went before. Sticking with the Spitfire depressingly it WAS an achievement for one to last 13 years, even one of the last off the line.

Roll forward to 2012 and it wasn't that unusual/suprising to see a 13 year old Mazda MX5 still in daily use though, and even today I expect to see now 23 year old ones owned by 'normal people' and not just 'classic car owners'. And the same applies to most 'rust proof rather than park in a lake for 6 weeks before painting' generation cars. I can't remember the last time I saw a 6th/last generation Ford Escort just being driven around but a Mk1 Ford Focus? Probably still see one a month.

KarlMac said:

Another complication I think is most insurers offering ‘classic’ insurance to anything over 25 years old. It would be interesting if this was changed to 40 years (like the mot standards etc…) and what that does to ‘survivor’ cars from the 90s that definitely aren’t classics.

If you'd had to wait for 25 years before getting classic insurance back in the 90s I'm not sure I'd be a classic owner today! As a 20 year old I could insure a 20 year old Spitfire on a classic policy for less than a 10 year old 950cc Ford Fiesta, which is a large part of the reason I ended up owning a 20 year old Spitfire, a Spitfire I still own today.

Edited by //j17 on Tuesday 12th July 15:04

Edited by //j17 on Tuesday 12th July 15:04

[Milkyway]

My ex was given a ‘98 MK1 Focus by her brother, & this was only a few years ago... eventually sold to her neighbour,
Strange to think that its coming up to ‘classic’ age... wish I had bought it now.

[RichB]

Lost ranger said:

<clip> In the early 80s owners of old cars seemed to feel they had to rationalise their choice by explaining that it was actually a 'classic'. I distinctly remember a letter in one of the magazines of the time, 'Old Motor' perhaps, saying something like 'at this rate we'll have people arguing a Cortina is a classic as the last mainstream RWD family saloon'.

Classic Car magazine, later Thoroughbred & Classic Car was first published in October 1973, I bought the first copy. Incidentally, my first car in '73 was a 1955 MG ZA Magnette, it's interesting to think that it was only 18 years old and yet considered a 'Classic'.

Milkyway said:

Era Definitions; According to Wiki & Google.
But it’s a good starting point.

Up to 1904: Veteran
1905 - 1918: Edwardian
1919 - 1930: Vintage.
1931 - 1979: Antique
( Never heard of ‘Practical Antiques’ relating to the car world though). ]

Which is clearly nonsense because, as you say, no one refers to pre-war cars as 'antiques'
I tend to refer to mine as a pre-war car or PVT (post vintage thoroughbred) depending on to whom I am talking.
p.s. bear in mind anyone can edit Wikipedia listings hence you should never believe everything you read on it.

[Milkyway]

Part ll... in the car world.
Classic: Over 20yrs old.
( That will appease some owners)

Antique: Over 45yrs old.

Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 12th July 16:55

[GoodOlBoy]

KarlMac said:

Now your falling into the odd category that is ‘modern classics’. Stuff from the 90s/00s that the owners are desperately hoping balloon in price linked with more traditional historic classics.

Edited by KarlMac on Tuesday 12th July 13:30

Or perhaps those cars appeal to their owners and they like attending car shows.

[markymarkthree]

GoodOlBoy said:

KarlMac said:

Now your falling into the odd category that is ‘modern classics’. Stuff from the 90s/00s that the owners are desperately hoping balloon in price linked with more traditional historic classics.

Edited by KarlMac on Tuesday 12th July 13:30

Or perhaps those cars appeal to their owners and they like attending car shows.

Or more likely, car show organisers happy to take £5/£10 off anyone showing any car.

[hmg]

And some new cars are deemed ‘collectible’ instant classics even before they are released.

[Tyre Smoke]

My 42yo Trabant and 24yo Chimaera are on the same classic car agreed value policy with shared mileage.

The Trabi is definitely a classic, yet the TVR attracts as much attention from the 'I remember these, they sound wonderful' brigade. Closely followed by 'does it breakdown much?'

[restoman]

What is a classic car?

Yawn