Unrealistic auction reserves
Discussion
H and H today.
80 lots down and only 7, yes 7, have met the minimum estimate. That's hammer price.
Even the outrageous 12.5% + VAT buyer's premium doesn't get the sale prices above the minimum estimate.
DB6 estimated at £200,000 to £240,000. Struggled to a high bid of £145,000 provisional...
Slightly better - 47,000 mile Ferrari 328 GTS rosso/crema estimated £55,000-£65,000. High bid of £50,000 provisional.
80 lots down and only 7, yes 7, have met the minimum estimate. That's hammer price.
Even the outrageous 12.5% + VAT buyer's premium doesn't get the sale prices above the minimum estimate.
DB6 estimated at £200,000 to £240,000. Struggled to a high bid of £145,000 provisional...
Slightly better - 47,000 mile Ferrari 328 GTS rosso/crema estimated £55,000-£65,000. High bid of £50,000 provisional.
andrewcliffe said:
Flaminia. Current owner bought car with those seats already fitted.
Then he's been falsely maligned by H&H..."Subtle touches which evidence the vendor s individual taste include the fitment of period style sports bucket seats which are said to be fair more supportive than the originals, plus the removal of the bumper overriders which to the vendor s eye ruin the entire line of the front and rear styling"
MitchT said:
If you're talking about the car on pages 90-91 of the booklet, those are original 328 seats.
No - talking about this carhttps://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-29---1963-...
Huntsman said:
DSMSMR said:
some are living in the past....classics are plummeting as old farts like me are dying!
I wish they'd fall faster.I've been following a few auction sites.
Lots of people are convinced the cars are worth what they achieved over COVID, but the buyers aren't there at inflated prices.
Pre 1960s cars (with the exception of the really special stuff) are doubly dropping as the market is getting smaller...
Lots of people are convinced the cars are worth what they achieved over COVID, but the buyers aren't there at inflated prices.
Pre 1960s cars (with the exception of the really special stuff) are doubly dropping as the market is getting smaller...
H&H auction published their Hammer prices next to the Estimates.
Where sometimes at an auction the Estimate prices were too low (to attract bidders?) now here is proof that they were in almost all cases much too high.
Not sure if a hammer price means the car is sold? It would seem so as there were also a few cars "unsold".
https://live.handh.co.uk/auctions/live-sale/id/90
Where sometimes at an auction the Estimate prices were too low (to attract bidders?) now here is proof that they were in almost all cases much too high.
Not sure if a hammer price means the car is sold? It would seem so as there were also a few cars "unsold".
https://live.handh.co.uk/auctions/live-sale/id/90
badhuis said:
H&H auction published their Hammer prices next to the Estimates.
Where sometimes at an auction the Estimate prices were too low (to attract bidders?) now here is proof that they were in almost all cases much too high.
Not sure if a hammer price means the car is sold? It would seem so as there were also a few cars "unsold".
https://live.handh.co.uk/auctions/live-sale/id/90
Many failed to reach their reserve so then a discussion takes place behind the scenes. Sometimes the hammer price is accepted, sometimes not.Where sometimes at an auction the Estimate prices were too low (to attract bidders?) now here is proof that they were in almost all cases much too high.
Not sure if a hammer price means the car is sold? It would seem so as there were also a few cars "unsold".
https://live.handh.co.uk/auctions/live-sale/id/90
In my opinion most of the hammer prices were reasonable - it's the guide prices that were silly.
Unreal said:
badhuis said:
H&H auction published their Hammer prices next to the Estimates.
Where sometimes at an auction the Estimate prices were too low (to attract bidders?) now here is proof that they were in almost all cases much too high.
Not sure if a hammer price means the car is sold? It would seem so as there were also a few cars "unsold".
https://live.handh.co.uk/auctions/live-sale/id/90
Many failed to reach their reserve so then a discussion takes place behind the scenes. Sometimes the hammer price is accepted, sometimes not.Where sometimes at an auction the Estimate prices were too low (to attract bidders?) now here is proof that they were in almost all cases much too high.
Not sure if a hammer price means the car is sold? It would seem so as there were also a few cars "unsold".
https://live.handh.co.uk/auctions/live-sale/id/90
In my opinion most of the hammer prices were reasonable - it's the guide prices that were silly.
Are we talking estimates or reserves? They're often not the same.
In a sellers market, they often put low estimates, knowing it will get bid up. In a buyers market, they set high estimates to plant a number in buyers minds. Those interested will bid anyway.
As for the reserve, unless someone really needs to shift something, the reserve is the point where the seller feels they might as well keep it.
To be honest, I've not seen many real bargains once you actually look at the individual car, other than the odd car sold with no reserve and very few are interested.
In a sellers market, they often put low estimates, knowing it will get bid up. In a buyers market, they set high estimates to plant a number in buyers minds. Those interested will bid anyway.
As for the reserve, unless someone really needs to shift something, the reserve is the point where the seller feels they might as well keep it.
To be honest, I've not seen many real bargains once you actually look at the individual car, other than the odd car sold with no reserve and very few are interested.
Edited by Pistom on Thursday 26th June 12:38
Pistom said:
Are we talking estimates or reserves? They're often not the same.
In a sellers market, they often put low estimates, knowing it will get bid up. In a buyers market, they set high estimates to plant a number in buyers minds. Those interested will bid anyway.
As for the reserve, unless someone really needs to shift something, the reserve is the point where the seller feels Ty might as well keep it.
To be honest, I've not seen many real bargains once you actually look at the individual car, other than the odd car sold with no reserve and very few are interested.
Both. Unlike the estimates, the reserves aren't published in advance, unless it's declared no reserve as in a minority of cases.In a sellers market, they often put low estimates, knowing it will get bid up. In a buyers market, they set high estimates to plant a number in buyers minds. Those interested will bid anyway.
As for the reserve, unless someone really needs to shift something, the reserve is the point where the seller feels Ty might as well keep it.
To be honest, I've not seen many real bargains once you actually look at the individual car, other than the odd car sold with no reserve and very few are interested.
The relationship between estimate and reserve isn't hard to work out and the reserve will often be effectively declared during the course of the bidding.
Bargains are in the eye of the beholder. It's extremely unlikely that a nugget will pass unnoticed through not only the hands of the auctioneers but also often national and international advertising and then a bidding room, real and virtual, stuffed with dealers and marque beards.
The main reason I use auctions to buy is that they will often feature something that only comes up for sale rarely so it's buy it now or wait for what might be forever.
Edited by Unreal on Thursday 26th June 18:26
Auction houses are so plentiful now , including online , they are all clamouring for entries, and allowing vendors to put reserves on which are often more than retail …. Bod on 2 Ferraris at a recent auction, top bidder on both , £42k (reserve £65k) £23k (reserve 38k ), waste of everyone’s time
wjs1968 said:
MitchT said:
If you're talking about the car on pages 90-91 of the booklet, those are original 328 seats.
No - talking about this carhttps://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-29---1963-...
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