Rust converters
Discussion
catso said:
I've been using Jenolite on my ongoing Land Rover rebuild, seems to work OK, any remaining rust turns to hard, black stuff that seems inert and takes paint OK - though it's not seen any rain yet so can't vouch for future-proofing.
The active ingredient in Jenolite is phosphoric acid.Honestly - just get some Phosphoric Acid put it in a spray bottle (or brush it on) and off you go. It is so cheap.
It is a very basic chemical reaction.
I bought some Cortanin F on a recommendation. I think it's a tannic converter but it's water soluble and the stuff that doesn't adhere to oxide, you can wash off, as well as your brushes. 
Probably not suitable for a large area as it is only 250ml bottles, a 'produkt Polski,' as it says on the bottle.
I've also used Vactan in the past, a lot of narrowboat owners use that, but it's no longer available on eBay.
Probably not suitable for a large area as it is only 250ml bottles, a 'produkt Polski,' as it says on the bottle.I've also used Vactan in the past, a lot of narrowboat owners use that, but it's no longer available on eBay.
You could consider deox-gel https://bilthamber.com/product/deox-gel/
This won't convert rust, it'll remove it. I believe its citric acid that does the work here, which you can easily get from ebay in powder form that you'd dissolve in water and use as a bath for the rusty items. Citric acid is not corrosive and rated food safe.
The benefit of the gel is you don't need to submerge the item in a solution - you just cover it up with clingfilm and let it do its thing, ideal for floorpans, you can then treat as clean metal.
This won't convert rust, it'll remove it. I believe its citric acid that does the work here, which you can easily get from ebay in powder form that you'd dissolve in water and use as a bath for the rusty items. Citric acid is not corrosive and rated food safe.
The benefit of the gel is you don't need to submerge the item in a solution - you just cover it up with clingfilm and let it do its thing, ideal for floorpans, you can then treat as clean metal.
So spraying a citric acid solution onto say a subframe in situ isn't a great idea as you will get a bare metal result? I've got loads of this about. Would phosphoric acid be better?
I've always thought that having a solution you can just spray whenever you are under/fixing something would be very useful. Ideally not toxic to animals or the ground I suppose.
I've always thought that having a solution you can just spray whenever you are under/fixing something would be very useful. Ideally not toxic to animals or the ground I suppose.
DKL said:
So spraying a citric acid solution onto say a subframe in situ isn't a great idea as you will get a bare metal result? I've got loads of this about. Would phosphoric acid be better?
I've always thought that having a solution you can just spray whenever you are under/fixing something would be very useful. Ideally not toxic to animals or the ground I suppose.
Citric acid will work fine, the problem you have (and that deox gel solves) is that it'll evaporate before it gets a chance to work. The gel holds it in place and covered with clingfilm it gives it time.I've always thought that having a solution you can just spray whenever you are under/fixing something would be very useful. Ideally not toxic to animals or the ground I suppose.
If you can create a "bath" (maybe a wooden box with a plastic liner) submerge the whole thing in a citric acid solution, no need for the gel then.
Getting back to bare metal (in my opinion) would be better than a treated surface.
If you only want to spray stuff then yes a phosphoric acid product might be better - another one on the list for this is POR15 metal ready / metal prep (same thing, they renamed it).
the citrus isnt spray on and you get bare metal , you would soak small parts in a bucket , and body panels need to be inventive some people mix up a paste or soak it with a wet towel ...
or bilt hamber deox gel is a ready made gel....wipe on , check , reapply until its all silver metal, might take a few days on something scabby
or bilt hamber deox gel is a ready made gel....wipe on , check , reapply until its all silver metal, might take a few days on something scabby
I have used citric acid in a bucket to remove rust off tools and a cylinder head but hadn't considered it on panels as I can only really use it on interior floor pans.
The main areas I need to focus on are the floor pans above and below - the underside looks worse than it is because the underseal has dried up over the decades and is hanging loosely. At the moment it is about getting back to the metal to see what I can keep or what needs to be cut off, as it is living outside I need to make sure that what I keep isn't jeopardised by leaving it exposed.
My intention is to apply a rust convertor then once that has done its job I will brush on some epoxy primer to protect the steel until I have finished the repairs required.
The main areas I need to focus on are the floor pans above and below - the underside looks worse than it is because the underseal has dried up over the decades and is hanging loosely. At the moment it is about getting back to the metal to see what I can keep or what needs to be cut off, as it is living outside I need to make sure that what I keep isn't jeopardised by leaving it exposed.
My intention is to apply a rust convertor then once that has done its job I will brush on some epoxy primer to protect the steel until I have finished the repairs required.
I presume the Phosphoric Acid would need washed off, the surface dried then overcoated, you can't just coat on the top once it's dried?
For smaller items, I've had great success with electrolysis in a bucket, you need an old battery charger (smart ones won't work) a piece of sheet steel anode in the bucket, fill the bucket with warm water and a handful of soap flakes, hook up the charger and away you go.
I've done loads of calipers like this and they come up mint with a wire brush to remove the sludge after.
For smaller items, I've had great success with electrolysis in a bucket, you need an old battery charger (smart ones won't work) a piece of sheet steel anode in the bucket, fill the bucket with warm water and a handful of soap flakes, hook up the charger and away you go.
I've done loads of calipers like this and they come up mint with a wire brush to remove the sludge after.
The problem with any of the 'rust converters' is that they only work on the surface of the rust they are painted on - and it only takes one little 
in the armour, one little spot that try as you might you don't quite cover and the rot will continue behind the converted layer.
Using a rust remover, possibly with a belt and braces follow-up coat of rust converter on the raw steel just to get anything you may have missed with the remover will see it being longer before you're back in the same place, chasing the same tin worm.
in the armour, one little spot that try as you might you don't quite cover and the rot will continue behind the converted layer.Using a rust remover, possibly with a belt and braces follow-up coat of rust converter on the raw steel just to get anything you may have missed with the remover will see it being longer before you're back in the same place, chasing the same tin worm.
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