What is a classic...
Discussion
I was browsing PH shop and saw their 'definition' range of clothing and this prompted me to think...what IS a classic, what is the definition? I suspect this question will be unanswerable as it is a moveable feast eaten on a table that is unstable beneath ever shifting goal posts and, just as you think someone has nailed it, someone will point out, 'yeah, but what about x,y or z, none of those fit your criteria and surely they are 'classic'?'
Old does not defer classic status. Good doesn't always; some demonstrably 'poor' vehicles are definitely classics. New, for me, doesn't disbar the nomenclature although it perhaps means entry to the club is by invitation only.
I'd be very interested to hear the opinions of PH and perhaps illustrate them with suggestions, the more obscure or provocative the better!!
Old does not defer classic status. Good doesn't always; some demonstrably 'poor' vehicles are definitely classics. New, for me, doesn't disbar the nomenclature although it perhaps means entry to the club is by invitation only.
I'd be very interested to hear the opinions of PH and perhaps illustrate them with suggestions, the more obscure or provocative the better!!
Panamax said:
Stick the word "Modern" in front of "Classic" and you'll really be rolling.
Agreed. Its a game with no existing rules that is perhaps defined in the weight of public opinion, an example of democratic agreement in practice. I'd argue, for example, my wee Honda CRZ is a 'modern classic' despite being several years newer than my Audi A8 D3 which is 'just' an old car.
Classic.
Arguably a modern classic?
And in the same vein?
In my defence, if you disagree, a classic car magazine wanted to do a feature on all three, I just didn't get the opportunity to take advantage of that offer, so it's not just my opinion.
Arguably a modern classic?
And in the same vein?
In my defence, if you disagree, a classic car magazine wanted to do a feature on all three, I just didn't get the opportunity to take advantage of that offer, so it's not just my opinion.
Edited by Heaveho on Sunday 9th August 18:29
Heaveho said:
Classic.
Arguably a modern classic?
And in the same vein?
In my defence, if you disagree, a classic car magazine wanted to do a feature on all three, I just didn't get the opportunity to take advantage of that offer, so it's not just my opinion.
All 'classic' in one way or another for me...I've had two mk1 Mr2, utterly brilliant little cars!! Arguably a modern classic?
And in the same vein?
In my defence, if you disagree, a classic car magazine wanted to do a feature on all three, I just didn't get the opportunity to take advantage of that offer, so it's not just my opinion.
Edited by Heaveho on Sunday 9th August 18:29
Steve-B said:
Classic to me is and car that doesn t have to pay road tax so >40yrs old.
Beauty is in the eye of the owner.
Next silly question?
I don't think it's a silly question.Beauty is in the eye of the owner.
Next silly question?
In 1999 I bought a 1974 car and it was very definitely a classic. It was a totally different driving experience to anything at that time.
I'm not entirely sure you could say the same about a 2001 car now but I don't think it will long before a classic is defined as any car that doesn't have lane assist and automatic braking.
I know we've been through all this before, but it's a very open, broad church, classics.
Everyone can have their own personal definition, and that's fine. I'd say it largely centres around the "huh, you don't really see those any more..." element when you come across one, even if things like age, appeal, actual by-the-numbers rarity, or even if they were any good in the first place aren't aligned.
It's a subject that always drags out the bores to say certain stuff can "never" be a classic, but I remember the cars people were saying that about decades ago, and they were shown to be wrong with the passage of enough time.
Everyone can have their own personal definition, and that's fine. I'd say it largely centres around the "huh, you don't really see those any more..." element when you come across one, even if things like age, appeal, actual by-the-numbers rarity, or even if they were any good in the first place aren't aligned.
It's a subject that always drags out the bores to say certain stuff can "never" be a classic, but I remember the cars people were saying that about decades ago, and they were shown to be wrong with the passage of enough time.
Steve-B said:
Classic to me is and car that doesn t have to pay road tax so >40yrs old.
Beauty is in the eye of the owner.
Next silly question?
Interesting. I disagree but without any vehemence because as I suggested, this will be very much a one man's classic is another man's auld car topic. I don't think we can pick time/age as an arbiter though, other views clearly differ... Beauty is in the eye of the owner.
Next silly question?
Well you want a discussion and this will probably start one off...
I think it's ultimately subjective, based loosely on age, luxury, performance, rarity, innovation. More than 40 years old helps but is neither necessary nor sufficient. So most models of most prestige marques would qualify (RR, Bentley, Jaguar, Bristol, AM, Jensen, AC for example). Beetle, Mini, Citroen Maigrets/ID/DS/GS, obviously for their innovation, but mass market porridge does not seem to me to warrant classic status. Personally I would include the Minor but not the Minx for example - purely personal subjective opinion. Some marques have a mixture of classic models and non classics - old Mercedes for example would mostly be classic, but not the bog standard Beirut taxis (180D and 190D for example). Ford Escort Mark1s ? Not the 1100, but definitely the Twincam and RS. Vauxhall ? Only the Lotus Carlton. Rootes : Imp and H120. BMC/BL - Mini and minor already mentioned, not sure whether I'd include the 1100/1300, but I would include the Maxi and 1800.
Plenty of inconsistencies there and I wouldn't particularly expect anyone to agree with my views - but I don't see a need for any tighter definition.
I think it's ultimately subjective, based loosely on age, luxury, performance, rarity, innovation. More than 40 years old helps but is neither necessary nor sufficient. So most models of most prestige marques would qualify (RR, Bentley, Jaguar, Bristol, AM, Jensen, AC for example). Beetle, Mini, Citroen Maigrets/ID/DS/GS, obviously for their innovation, but mass market porridge does not seem to me to warrant classic status. Personally I would include the Minor but not the Minx for example - purely personal subjective opinion. Some marques have a mixture of classic models and non classics - old Mercedes for example would mostly be classic, but not the bog standard Beirut taxis (180D and 190D for example). Ford Escort Mark1s ? Not the 1100, but definitely the Twincam and RS. Vauxhall ? Only the Lotus Carlton. Rootes : Imp and H120. BMC/BL - Mini and minor already mentioned, not sure whether I'd include the 1100/1300, but I would include the Maxi and 1800.
Plenty of inconsistencies there and I wouldn't particularly expect anyone to agree with my views - but I don't see a need for any tighter definition.
Penny Whistle said:
Well you want a discussion and this will probably start one off...
I think it's ultimately subjective, based loosely on age, luxury, performance, rarity, innovation. More than 40 years old helps but is neither necessary nor sufficient. So most models of most prestige marques would qualify (RR, Bentley, Jaguar, Bristol, AM, Jensen, AC for example). Beetle, Mini, Citroen Maigrets/ID/DS/GS, obviously for their innovation, but mass market porridge does not seem to me to warrant classic status. Personally I would include the Minor but not the Minx for example - purely personal subjective opinion. Some marques have a mixture of classic models and non classics - old Mercedes for example would mostly be classic, but not the bog standard Beirut taxis (180D and 190D for example). Ford Escort Mark1s ? Not the 1100, but definitely the Twincam and RS. Vauxhall ? Only the Lotus Carlton. Rootes : Imp and H120. BMC/BL - Mini and minor already mentioned, not sure whether I'd include the 1100/1300, but I would include the Maxi and 1800.
Plenty of inconsistencies there and I wouldn't particularly expect anyone to agree with my views - but I don't see a need for any tighter definition.
I think it's ultimately subjective, based loosely on age, luxury, performance, rarity, innovation. More than 40 years old helps but is neither necessary nor sufficient. So most models of most prestige marques would qualify (RR, Bentley, Jaguar, Bristol, AM, Jensen, AC for example). Beetle, Mini, Citroen Maigrets/ID/DS/GS, obviously for their innovation, but mass market porridge does not seem to me to warrant classic status. Personally I would include the Minor but not the Minx for example - purely personal subjective opinion. Some marques have a mixture of classic models and non classics - old Mercedes for example would mostly be classic, but not the bog standard Beirut taxis (180D and 190D for example). Ford Escort Mark1s ? Not the 1100, but definitely the Twincam and RS. Vauxhall ? Only the Lotus Carlton. Rootes : Imp and H120. BMC/BL - Mini and minor already mentioned, not sure whether I'd include the 1100/1300, but I would include the Maxi and 1800.
Plenty of inconsistencies there and I wouldn't particularly expect anyone to agree with my views - but I don't see a need for any tighter definition.
Well, opinions are like classic cars, Everyone has one...
so here is my definition Yours will be different
1) No longer in production
2) That someone is willing to love, cherish and enjoy it.
That I might not consider a Chrsler Crossfire a classic, the fact that someone like then enough to cherish, look after it and maybe display it, makes it a classic in my book.
so here is my definition Yours will be different
1) No longer in production
2) That someone is willing to love, cherish and enjoy it.
That I might not consider a Chrsler Crossfire a classic, the fact that someone like then enough to cherish, look after it and maybe display it, makes it a classic in my book.
williamp said:
Well, opinions are like classic cars, Everyone has one...
so here is my definition Yours will be different
1) No longer in production
2) That someone is willing to love, cherish and enjoy it.
That I might not consider a Chrsler Crossfire a classic, the fact that someone like then enough to cherish, look after it and maybe display it, makes it a classic in my book.
As good, and ambiguous, a definition as any. And for me, bang on the money. so here is my definition Yours will be different
1) No longer in production
2) That someone is willing to love, cherish and enjoy it.
That I might not consider a Chrsler Crossfire a classic, the fact that someone like then enough to cherish, look after it and maybe display it, makes it a classic in my book.
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