Autocar classic road tests
Discussion
Worth a look at this week's Autocar to see their top 100 road tests reprinted. Not surprisingly the original e type 3.8 is top (ahead of the McLaren F1)and deservedly so.I've seen the test before but enjoyed reading it again. When you remember that this car was built in the early 1960's the performance figures are incredible. How about 0 to 100mph in 16.2 secs! That's a very respectable time for a performance car now and the e type is 50 years old!
Your post has prompted me to pop across and look at Autocar's website and i've just read their Veyron Supersport review.
In all honestly i'm still in shock and awe at the times they've recorded for the car. 0-100 in 4.94
Goes to show how technology has moved on in 50 years but makes you think what will be around in 50years from now.....
In all honestly i'm still in shock and awe at the times they've recorded for the car. 0-100 in 4.94
Goes to show how technology has moved on in 50 years but makes you think what will be around in 50years from now.....
2slo said:
Worth a look at this week's Autocar to see their top 100 road tests reprinted. Not surprisingly the original e type 3.8 is top (ahead of the McLaren F1)and deservedly so.I've seen the test before but enjoyed reading it again. When you remember that this car was built in the early 1960's the performance figures are incredible. How about 0 to 100mph in 16.2 secs! That's a very respectable time for a performance car now and the e type is 50 years old!
Surely the tests aren't reprinted in full, that would be a good few hundred pages? Exactly what is included?I have every Autocar here from 1955 to 1975, and sure, things are perhaps better today in terms of performance and economy, but at the same time pound for pound the E-type was exceptional - less than half the price of an equivalent Aston or Ferrari at the time.
EVO tested my 1961 E-type in 1997, with 7.1 seconds recorded 0-60 on a damp track, and they were astonished how it compared to the XK they tested to compare. In the slalom test my E-type even beat the XK! I still have the magazine and article, and it still astonishes me how road-savvy the E-type is today, particularly that I can put it in 4th (top for you youngsters) let the clutch out fully at 12mph and go on to over 130mph with no vibration. Can many - or any - modern cars do that?
EVO tested my 1961 E-type in 1997, with 7.1 seconds recorded 0-60 on a damp track, and they were astonished how it compared to the XK they tested to compare. In the slalom test my E-type even beat the XK! I still have the magazine and article, and it still astonishes me how road-savvy the E-type is today, particularly that I can put it in 4th (top for you youngsters) let the clutch out fully at 12mph and go on to over 130mph with no vibration. Can many - or any - modern cars do that?
lowdrag said:
I have every Autocar here from 1955 to 1975, and sure, things are perhaps better today in terms of performance and economy, but at the same time pound for pound the E-type was exceptional - less than half the price of an equivalent Aston or Ferrari at the time.
EVO tested my 1961 E-type in 1997, with 7.1 seconds recorded 0-60 on a damp track, and they were astonished how it compared to the XK they tested to compare. In the slalom test my E-type even beat the XK! I still have the magazine and article, and it still astonishes me how road-savvy the E-type is today, particularly that I can put it in 4th (top for you youngsters) let the clutch out fully at 12mph and go on to over 130mph with no vibration. Can many - or any - modern cars do that?
I just looked at that on your profile, very nice. Can I suggest the value you put on it is perhaps just a little on the low side?EVO tested my 1961 E-type in 1997, with 7.1 seconds recorded 0-60 on a damp track, and they were astonished how it compared to the XK they tested to compare. In the slalom test my E-type even beat the XK! I still have the magazine and article, and it still astonishes me how road-savvy the E-type is today, particularly that I can put it in 4th (top for you youngsters) let the clutch out fully at 12mph and go on to over 130mph with no vibration. Can many - or any - modern cars do that?
Seriously though it would be good to read about it. 120,000 miles in an e type across 22 countries: definately deserves a thread to itself!
Interesting thanks. I could still be so easily tempted by a series 1 4.2 e but I have a Caterham itch to scratch first.
The prices commanded by Lynx D's are incredible. I well recall the adverts Lynx used to run in Motorsport in the 1980's for them suggesting all you needed was an E type donor... Wish I'd bought one!
The prices commanded by Lynx D's are incredible. I well recall the adverts Lynx used to run in Motorsport in the 1980's for them suggesting all you needed was an E type donor... Wish I'd bought one!
Edited by 2slo on Friday 4th March 23:26
lowdrag said:
Would take too long to write up the history, but she's been from the Scandinavian countries to Morocco, to Bosnia, Croatia and virtually all points in between. Incidentally, that photo was taken in Slovakia about five years back. Yes the value is somewhat on the low side I guess these days, especially for a flat floor, but then I think I paid about £800 for it when I bought it 29 years back. Much money spent entretemps, but she has been worth every penny and has broken down roadside twice when it wasn't repairable, both times with a dynamo failure. Also, since there were but seven short nose Lynx Ds made and one is on the market at £200,000 (compare that to the price paid much more recently!) I guess I need to talk to my insurers! And since the C-type has already been at the Revival and is invited to the Festival this year, my "people who know" have given me a rather horrendous insurance value for that too. Cheque book needed I guess, but for me it is the pleasure of ownership, not the value, that counts. I've added a very hot engine and 20,000 miles to the D-type too.
Edit: just dug out the EVO which was Feb. 1999, and the 0-60 time was 7.2 on the damp track and 0-100 was 21.5. However, I bow down to the XKR on braking - a lot! Mine was 100 - 0 in 560ft, and the XKR in 437ft. Since then I have put far more powerful four pot calipers on, but it really shows the difference that ABS makes. Interestingly, they also compared the Focus to the Anglia, and it was no contest, but more surprisingly the Focus cornered far better than the XKR.
Finally, EVO's comment was this:-
As a driving experience, the rumbustious E-type is far more involved than the dazzlingly quick and refined XKR. Of the four cars it is the one it's the one you'd choose for sheer crack-of-dawn entertainment. Had the Jag on test been a 4.2 (more torque, better gearbox, more room) and a regular XK8 then the difference would have been wafer thin. Not much evidence of progress here.
Finally, I've dug out the second hand E-type Autocar test of 25/4/68 and the performance figures are awful. 0 - 60 in 9.9, 0 - 100 in 24.4 which is pretty poor, especially given the speedo reading of 18,000. Mine has 90,000 on the current engine and still uses virtually no oil and performance is, subjectively, about on par with 1999.
I once owned a 4.2 roadster (I'm almost 6'3" and cannot fit in a 3.8 to save my life, the 4.2 is VERY snug) that was a well cared for original car. A few really lucky moves led me to be able to buy it in 1995 when they were at roughly their cheapest. Shoulda kept it Edit: just dug out the EVO which was Feb. 1999, and the 0-60 time was 7.2 on the damp track and 0-100 was 21.5. However, I bow down to the XKR on braking - a lot! Mine was 100 - 0 in 560ft, and the XKR in 437ft. Since then I have put far more powerful four pot calipers on, but it really shows the difference that ABS makes. Interestingly, they also compared the Focus to the Anglia, and it was no contest, but more surprisingly the Focus cornered far better than the XKR.
Finally, EVO's comment was this:-
As a driving experience, the rumbustious E-type is far more involved than the dazzlingly quick and refined XKR. Of the four cars it is the one it's the one you'd choose for sheer crack-of-dawn entertainment. Had the Jag on test been a 4.2 (more torque, better gearbox, more room) and a regular XK8 then the difference would have been wafer thin. Not much evidence of progress here.
Finally, I've dug out the second hand E-type Autocar test of 25/4/68 and the performance figures are awful. 0 - 60 in 9.9, 0 - 100 in 24.4 which is pretty poor, especially given the speedo reading of 18,000. Mine has 90,000 on the current engine and still uses virtually no oil and performance is, subjectively, about on par with 1999.
Edited by lowdrag on Friday 4th March 22:53
It had a great patina, original leather with lots of creases, it had been repainted once but the paint was very slightly faded, some chrome was a bit worn but it wasn't rusty, it had 2 owners who never used the car when there was salt on the roads so it was a rare survivor here in the Northeastern US.Anyways... it wasn't a show car so it was affordable, and I was 20 years old so I drove it like I stole it as they say... I can remember some smart aleck in VW GTI trying to race me, and leaving him with a nice view of my taillights. I also had a bit of an adventure driving the car over 1,000 miles from New Jersey to outside of St. Louis, Missouri once. It acted up a couple of times but blasting across an empty interstate at 100+ with the top down is some experience!
I sold it, like a fool, as being in University in a small town in Southern Illinois and owning an E-Type weren't very compatible (Even if there was a great Jaguar mechanic in town which there was) and I miss it. Still.
It's good to see someone actually using one in anger, too many of them over here are restored to way better than when they were new and they get trailered to shows and kept shiny and barely used, which to me seems like a heinous crime.
Captain Cadillac said:
It's good to see someone actually using one in anger, too many of them over here are restored to way better than when they were new and they get trailered to shows and kept shiny and barely used, which to me seems like a heinous crime.
Absolutely. Cars are made to be driven and enjoyed, not just wheeled out for shows.2slo said:
Worth a look at this week's Autocar to see their top 100 road tests reprinted.
I'd love to see that! Where can I get it?The issue I picked up only included the Top 50 road tests and they certainly were not reprints of the test, just a couple of pages on each.
But I'd really like to get hold of this special issue that you have.
2slo said:
Worth a look at this week's Autocar to see their top 100 road tests reprinted. Not surprisingly the original e type 3.8 is top (ahead of the McLaren F1)and deservedly so.I've seen the test before but enjoyed reading it again. When you remember that this car was built in the early 1960's the performance figures are incredible. How about 0 to 100mph in 16.2 secs! That's a very respectable time for a performance car now and the e type is 50 years old!
It seems a pity that these numbers (150mph max.)are recorded for posterity as being the official performance figures for the original 3.8-Litre Jaguar E-type. Regrettably this car was not typical of the 3.8 series as the car (Reg. No. 9600 HP) was not standard in any way, as was later revealed. This had been prepared by the factory as a road test demonstrator for use by the press. As recorded elsewhere by Autocar the present owner Philip Porter who has written a book about this particular car and what was done to it, it is a 'one-off', not even really a prototype.As an E-type owner I can state that the strict rev limit is 5,500rpm and that means a top speed on road tyres of 137 mph on the 3.07:1 axle ratio and only 127mph on the 3.31 axle ratio. The road test cars of the period all used racing tyres with lower drag and greater tyre circumference that geared up the car and made it (a lot)faster. As a guess I would think that the engine bhp was increased from no more than 200 bhp(DIN)in standard trim to as much as 250 bhp (DIN) for the press demonstrator after it had been 'got at' by the factory tuners. At least one other car was similarly treated, a 3.8 Convertible [Reg. No. 77 RW] and as tested by Motor. I leave it to you to decide whether the later Series One 4.2-litre cars were similarly dealt with, as they too recorded mythical 150mph top speeds.
Edited by pjl20 on Wednesday 21st October 12:32
With Dunlop 640H15's fitted 5,500 revs with a 3.07 diff actually equates to 143mph.
5700 revs gives you 149mph - Allow for a bit of tyre growth and 150mph is feasible.
Yes the test cars were probably tweaked a bit - but nothing that couldn't be done on a road car and they are still beautifully flexible.
But - does it really matter ? The E-type had sensational performance for the money.
5700 revs gives you 149mph - Allow for a bit of tyre growth and 150mph is feasible.
Yes the test cars were probably tweaked a bit - but nothing that couldn't be done on a road car and they are still beautifully flexible.
But - does it really matter ? The E-type had sensational performance for the money.
There is nothing mythical about an E Type's top speed, it will make the speed you adjust it's set-up for. The E type benefitted from all the engine and chassis development from the XK, D type and E2A, the D type was good for over 180mph reliably, E2A raised that further to over 190, and led the way for the E types incredible but now rather taken-for-granted rear suspension.
I have a subtly modified 3.8 S1 roadster in our workshops which has some nice tweaks to enhance the car without detracting from it's feel. the car is fantastic to drive, the only thing that hints at a previous era is the Moss box, which requires care, but is just fine once learned. if that doesn't appeal, then buy a 4.2 which is less revvy, more torquey and has the lovely four-synchro box. An E type is a solid and very adjustable platform, that can easily be tuned to give what it's owner needs, and it is quite possible to have a Sunday pub car that can also do alpine tours, hillclimbs and trackdays, when not being used for commuting.
Peter
I have a subtly modified 3.8 S1 roadster in our workshops which has some nice tweaks to enhance the car without detracting from it's feel. the car is fantastic to drive, the only thing that hints at a previous era is the Moss box, which requires care, but is just fine once learned. if that doesn't appeal, then buy a 4.2 which is less revvy, more torquey and has the lovely four-synchro box. An E type is a solid and very adjustable platform, that can easily be tuned to give what it's owner needs, and it is quite possible to have a Sunday pub car that can also do alpine tours, hillclimbs and trackdays, when not being used for commuting.
Peter
Agree with Peter on this . The 3.8 is the better engine, far more of a revy sports car engine , whereas the 4.2 is more relaxed saloon car engine . However both respond Very well to the fitment of an alloy flywheel . And there is much that can be done to improve an E Type . Inc Shocks, Anti Roll Bars, Torsion bars , Negative Camber etc etc . Also some decent seats , wider 7 inch Alloys ( Minilites ) etc etc .
Have just taken the bonnet off of my S1 and it's weight is just ridiculous . They drive far better with a light weight bonnet I'n either fibreglass or alloy .
Have just taken the bonnet off of my S1 and it's weight is just ridiculous . They drive far better with a light weight bonnet I'n either fibreglass or alloy .
I'll just leave this here! http://www.flickr.com/photos/triggerscarstuff/coll...
I also have Motor and CAR pretty well covered on there as well.
I also have Motor and CAR pretty well covered on there as well.
pjl20 said:
It seems a pity that these numbers are recorded for posterity as being the official performance figures for the original 3.8-Litre Jaguar E-type. Regrettably this car was not typical of the 3.8 series as the car ...
I wonder whether any car in the entire history of "road testing" has been typical?No manufacture is going to send the rags a duffer are they?
In the computer industry, these "performance testing" things are officially known as benchmarking, but are frequently known as "benchmarketing" since that is what they are really all about.
If you don't like the E-Types numbers, try the XKSS figures from 1957. I wonder how far you have to go through the road tests till you next find a car clocking sub 6s to 60, let alone 5.2?
As to the Bugatti Veyron SS, it still gets spanked by much humbler machines as soon as it gets near a corner and that is without resorting to things which are primarily designed to go around tracks. For 2M, surely they could do far better?
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