Mercedes 280CE - rust bucket?
Discussion
I'm quite interested in this as it is in a very similar colour scheme (cream/dark green) to a 250CE I owned 30 years ago.
https://www.historics.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-128---...
It is described as being in exceptional condition - which it obviously isn't (look at the lefthand door lower seal lip for example - or what's left of it) and you can also see the respray is not exactly fabulous.
What I can't quite figure out is if the sills are really bad or whether it's simply a trick of the light and what appear to be holes in the righthand sill are actually shadows?
If so it's a shame because the interior is fantastic. Appreciate any thoughts.
https://www.historics.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-128---...
It is described as being in exceptional condition - which it obviously isn't (look at the lefthand door lower seal lip for example - or what's left of it) and you can also see the respray is not exactly fabulous.
What I can't quite figure out is if the sills are really bad or whether it's simply a trick of the light and what appear to be holes in the righthand sill are actually shadows?
If so it's a shame because the interior is fantastic. Appreciate any thoughts.
That is a very early car with the single door mirror. It's certainly had some paint - the bit of the front valance tucked right underneath should be black, but it looks body coloured - but paint on a 45 year old car is hardly surprising. I'm not sure of the holes you mention but the circular holes you see are the jacking points. Such an elegant car though.
https://oudemercedesbrochures.nl/W123_Coupe_1280en...
https://oudemercedesbrochures.nl/W123_Coupe_1280en...
Dapster said:
That is a very early car with the single door mirror. It's certainly had some paint - the bit of the front valance tucked right underneath should be black, but it looks body coloured - but paint on a 45 year old car is hardly surprising. I'm not sure of the holes you mention but the circular holes you see are the jacking points. Such an elegant car though.
https://oudemercedesbrochures.nl/W123_Coupe_1280en...
no it's not the jacking points - it looks to me as if the sill where it meets the floorpan has gonehttps://oudemercedesbrochures.nl/W123_Coupe_1280en...
Sold my 280E a couple of years ago but from a quick look at the photos the rear jacking points (holes) don't look factory / correct so have probably been repaired in the past. It's hard to tell though as the photos aren't particularly close up but as you say the sill doesn't look right to me.
Check where bonnet hinges attach to body in engine bay and also boot floor and parcel shelf.
These all rust so doesn't mean it's a bad car - just depends on what you want and price etc.
Check where bonnet hinges attach to body in engine bay and also boot floor and parcel shelf.
These all rust so doesn't mean it's a bad car - just depends on what you want and price etc.
I could answer that before I looked at the pics - yes! I suspect that car will have good bits, but need replacement / repair panels in the usual places, so it's cost prohibitive to fix properly.
I love these, and have been to look at several, but was ultimately put off by hidden crustiness. Ended up buying a 107 instead (that was also rusty, but the repair costs were a bit easier to stomach as the 107 is far more glamorous).
They can look really good on top, but yet be soooo rotten underneath - The interiors are near as damnit indestructible and quite easy to replace, so are not a good barometer of underlying condition. There's a reason they were so popular as taxis!
Get an endoscope that connects to your phone and have a look inside the box sections, under the rear screen, corners of the doors, top/bottom of the front bulkhead etc. - the little bits of staining / frilly edges you can see on the inside of the bonnet and door corners will likely be nothing compared to what lies beneath.
I love these, and have been to look at several, but was ultimately put off by hidden crustiness. Ended up buying a 107 instead (that was also rusty, but the repair costs were a bit easier to stomach as the 107 is far more glamorous).
They can look really good on top, but yet be soooo rotten underneath - The interiors are near as damnit indestructible and quite easy to replace, so are not a good barometer of underlying condition. There's a reason they were so popular as taxis!
Get an endoscope that connects to your phone and have a look inside the box sections, under the rear screen, corners of the doors, top/bottom of the front bulkhead etc. - the little bits of staining / frilly edges you can see on the inside of the bonnet and door corners will likely be nothing compared to what lies beneath.
As with all classics, you really need to see it to get a true handle on condition but that looks like a veneer car to me - shiny and good where you can immediately see it; less promising in the areas you can't.
It's hard to tell re the calls from the photos but the state of the engine bay, the door-shuts and the fuel filler recess are setting off early warning alarms for me
It's hard to tell re the calls from the photos but the state of the engine bay, the door-shuts and the fuel filler recess are setting off early warning alarms for me
Tim_D said:
Sold my 280E a couple of years ago but from a quick look at the photos the rear jacking points (holes) don't look factory / correct so have probably been repaired in the past. It's hard to tell though as the photos aren't particularly close up but as you say the sill doesn't look right to me.
Check where bonnet hinges attach to body in engine bay and also boot floor and parcel shelf.
These all rust so doesn't mean it's a bad car - just depends on what you want and price etc.
Fair point abut the jacking points - I think you're right. Check where bonnet hinges attach to body in engine bay and also boot floor and parcel shelf.
These all rust so doesn't mean it's a bad car - just depends on what you want and price etc.
Agree it doesn't make it a bad car - just trying to get a rough measure to see if I've the appetite for it...
spitsfire said:
I could answer that before I looked at the pics - yes! I suspect that car will have good bits, but need replacement / repair panels in the usual places, so it's cost prohibitive to fix properly.
I love these, and have been to look at several, but was ultimately put off by hidden crustiness. Ended up buying a 107 instead (that was also rusty, but the repair costs were a bit easier to stomach as the 107 is far more glamorous).
They can look really good on top, but yet be soooo rotten underneath - The interiors are near as damnit indestructible and quite easy to replace, so are not a good barometer of underlying condition. There's a reason they were so popular as taxis!
Get an endoscope that connects to your phone and have a look inside the box sections, under the rear screen, corners of the doors, top/bottom of the front bulkhead etc. - the little bits of staining / frilly edges you can see on the inside of the bonnet and door corners will likely be nothing compared to what lies beneath.
It's my previous experience of a 107 SLC that's ringing alarm bells - looked fabulous when I bought it and the owner had spent 10K rebuilding the engine (it was only a 280 but went like a rocket) however within a couple of years the sills were completely shot.... I love these, and have been to look at several, but was ultimately put off by hidden crustiness. Ended up buying a 107 instead (that was also rusty, but the repair costs were a bit easier to stomach as the 107 is far more glamorous).
They can look really good on top, but yet be soooo rotten underneath - The interiors are near as damnit indestructible and quite easy to replace, so are not a good barometer of underlying condition. There's a reason they were so popular as taxis!
Get an endoscope that connects to your phone and have a look inside the box sections, under the rear screen, corners of the doors, top/bottom of the front bulkhead etc. - the little bits of staining / frilly edges you can see on the inside of the bonnet and door corners will likely be nothing compared to what lies beneath.
ClaphamGT3 said:
As with all classics, you really need to see it to get a true handle on condition but that looks like a veneer car to me - shiny and good where you can immediately see it; less promising in the areas you can't.
It's hard to tell re the calls from the photos but the state of the engine bay, the door-shuts and the fuel filler recess are setting off early warning alarms for me
agreed - I'm going t have to get my lazy @rse down to Farnborough if I'm serious...!It's hard to tell re the calls from the photos but the state of the engine bay, the door-shuts and the fuel filler recess are setting off early warning alarms for me
There is enough rust bleeding through the paint in various areas to make me think this is hiding a lot of worse corrosion in the hollow sections - doors, sills and so on. If the current owner wasn't bothered about sorting out the obvious rust issues, what else will they have skimped on?
9xxNick said:
There is enough rust bleeding through the paint in various areas to make me think this is hiding a lot of worse corrosion in the hollow sections - doors, sills and so on. If the current owner wasn't bothered about sorting out the obvious rust issues, what else will they have skimped on?
indeed - just noticed that even the door mirror mounts have rust - quite impressive! You’re worried about the sills?
Bottom of the LH door looks really nasty; there appears to be rust leaching out from under the RH rear lamp (stains on the paint); bottom of the RH B pillar looks like there is rust coming through; edge of rear valance is rusty; something not right with the paint under the LH headlamp.
Looks awfully like it has had a quick blow over to tart it up for sale.
Interior is nice though.
Bottom of the LH door looks really nasty; there appears to be rust leaching out from under the RH rear lamp (stains on the paint); bottom of the RH B pillar looks like there is rust coming through; edge of rear valance is rusty; something not right with the paint under the LH headlamp.
Looks awfully like it has had a quick blow over to tart it up for sale.
Interior is nice though.
I really liked my old 280CE. It wasn't particularly rusty but both bottom corners of the rear window were starting to bubble, and removing the glass to correct it was a task too far for me. I remember replacing the valve stem oil seals and a troublesome little fuel injection box (cold start?) on the side of the block. Otherwise a great car.
Longnose said:
I really liked my old 280CE. It wasn't particularly rusty but both bottom corners of the rear window were starting to bubble, and removing the glass to correct it was a task too far for me. I remember replacing the valve stem oil seals and a troublesome little fuel injection box (cold start?) on the side of the block. Otherwise a great car.
They were always a bit mean on equipment. I remember looking at an early 80’s 280 CE and it didn’t even have a Rev Counter.
Rob 131 Sport said:
I would imagine in comparison with other contemporary cars they were highly rust resistant.
They were always a bit mean on equipment. I remember looking at an early 80’s 280 CE and it didn’t even have a Rev Counter.
You would think so but they weren't - as per spitsfire above the 107 of that era was a nightmare in particular with regards to the bulkhead. And don't get me started on the previous generation 114/115 - my 250CE went in for a sill replacement which didn't go to plan owing to the fact that the floor they were meant to attach to turned out to be 95% glassfibre.... They were always a bit mean on equipment. I remember looking at an early 80’s 280 CE and it didn’t even have a Rev Counter.
Rob 131 Sport said:
Longnose said:
I really liked my old 280CE. It wasn't particularly rusty but both bottom corners of the rear window were starting to bubble, and removing the glass to correct it was a task too far for me. I remember replacing the valve stem oil seals and a troublesome little fuel injection box (cold start?) on the side of the block. Otherwise a great car.
They were always a bit mean on equipment. I remember looking at an early 80’s 280 CE and it didn’t even have a Rev Counter.
I think you can infer everything you need to know, from the fact the listing has a million pics but they've not thought to put any of the undersides.
Can you weld? Or have enough money and time, for someone else to weld? It might not be that extensive, underneath, but it will sure need some stuff doing.
Can you weld? Or have enough money and time, for someone else to weld? It might not be that extensive, underneath, but it will sure need some stuff doing.
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