Discussion
What is it with this programme? I have watched it, and it appears to be about a bunch of workshy benefits scrounging chavscum. Worse still, they seem to be being feted as "working class heroes", or cheeky chappies that don't mean any real harm.
Tonight's episode is apparently about "Frank" the booze ridden scumbag at the head of the family having a hard day's work avoiding doing any work.
I'm delighted Channel 4 has decided to celebrate Britain's burgeouning chav culture by making a tv series that glorifies the lifestyle.
Fantastic role models.
>>> Edited by alexkp on Tuesday 4th January 22:06
Tonight's episode is apparently about "Frank" the booze ridden scumbag at the head of the family having a hard day's work avoiding doing any work.
I'm delighted Channel 4 has decided to celebrate Britain's burgeouning chav culture by making a tv series that glorifies the lifestyle.
Fantastic role models.
>>> Edited by alexkp on Tuesday 4th January 22:06
gavstar said:
I see you're "on one" tonight Alexp - just read your post about the Jacko Wackos too. Keep it up son!! 
I've not seen it before myself, but its on in the background atm.
>> Edited by gavstar on Tuesday 4th January 22:16
I am most definitely "on one"...lol
The opening titles of this programme appear to show the entire verminous family engaging in that traditional chav activity of torching cars and staging a mini-riot whilst taunting the police.
I used to work in TV, but left in disgust to do something worthwhile...shame the rest of the BBC and Channel 4 don't decide to do something of value to...
Having just seen most of one episode, i have to agree, it's poor. I appreciate that this sort of programme is aimed at people who are not actually like the characters, and find it amusing to watch how the "other half" live, but i am also very conscious that it also serves to normalise the behaviour of the real-life scum. My local shopping centre on a Saturday afternoon makes me soo ashamed to be part of the same civilisation as these people and I think the media needs to subtly begin to actively discourage the very same mentality they have gradually encouraged by way of acceptance. Am I waffling? Probably, but hopefully you catch my drift! It has gone too far now, this culture of turning rules on their head, to the extent that these people defy ALL social standards as they have no understanding of which rules can be broken and which are there for the good of the community.
And no, I'm not an old git, I'm 31!
And no, I'm not an old git, I'm 31!
Podie said:
It was the first episode of the second series (following the award winning first series, I understand).
If you really feel that strongly about it, why not just turn over, or turn the telly off….?
Quite right, I watched the first series and found it to be excellent.
I notice people talking about programmes like this making the sort of behaviour they portray the norm. Is this in a similar way to violent films encouraging violence.....what utter bollocks, its light entertainment, nothing more, nothing less.
Too reiterate the first point, if you dont like it, dont watch it....simple!
Phill
Phillvr6 said:
It was the first episode of the second series (following the award winning first series, I understand).
If you really feel that strongly about it, why not just turn over, or turn the telly off….?
Quite right, I watched the first series and found it to be excellent.
I notice people talking about programmes like this making the sort of behaviour they portray the norm. Is this in a similar way to violent films encouraging violence.....what utter bollocks, its light entertainment, nothing more, nothing less.
Too reiterate the first point, if you dont like it, dont watch it....simple!
Phill
Oh I do agree - I generally don't watch this stuff. But I am more concerned as to whay it is produced in the first place, and what it says about our society that this type of amoral scum glorification is not only popular, but also "award winning".
Your point about whether violent films encourage violent behaviour is simplistic - over a period of time they do have a desensitising effect.
A programme such as "Shameless" is part of an ongoing process of erosion of basic standards and principles IMHO.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Alex - think you've got the wrong end of the stick on this one.
Which award did it win? Does anyone know…? It could have been for concept, originality, arty direction… ?
Having watched it, I certainly don't see it as glorification of "chav-ness" - if anything it's the opposite… personally I see it as mindless escapism...
Just a thought,
when trainspotting came out people said it glorified the drug culture. IMHO it did the exact opposite, after al I dont fancy taking so many drugs I shit myself.
Shameless is similar in that I don't fancy getting off my tits and dancing on my own to the stone roses (on a juke box) in a shit heap pub in one of the worst parts of Manchester. Nor do I fancy relying on the £25 a week tips from a bar job as protrayed in last nights episode.
See where I'm coming from?
Phill
when trainspotting came out people said it glorified the drug culture. IMHO it did the exact opposite, after al I dont fancy taking so many drugs I shit myself.
Shameless is similar in that I don't fancy getting off my tits and dancing on my own to the stone roses (on a juke box) in a shit heap pub in one of the worst parts of Manchester. Nor do I fancy relying on the £25 a week tips from a bar job as protrayed in last nights episode.
See where I'm coming from?
Phill
Podie and PhillVR6,
It has won a number of awards, and been nominated for Best TV Drama 2005 in the prestigious South Bank Awards.
Generally I do defend creative freedom and experimentation. I come from an media and film background after all. However, it does sadden me that not only have the standards of mainstream terrestrial (and much cable/satelite) television fallen through the floor, but that any attempt at setting a moral standard is now actively sneered at.
Many of my contemporaries now spend most of their time making either another "100 Best....(insert anything here) or Big Brother. The intrinsic value of this most transient of programming is pretty much nil in my honest opinion. I could never devote my time or effort to making such stuff - maybe that's my problem.
The mirror debate has long raged amongst Media Commentators and Sociologists - ie. does the media shape society or simply reflect it (Ie hold a mirror up to society). Most would now agree that it is a symbiotic relationship, and one influences the other in a perpetual cycle of cause and effect.
The real problem is, that over time, continued exposure to violent or valueless media does have a negative effect on most people, especially the more impressionable and less educated. Experiments using test subjects which are then exposed to a series of very violent images have clearly shown that people can be desensitised to such images very quickly.
The fact is that television is the most powerful mediumto have ever existed - it comes into people's homes and can shape their attitudes, values and beliefs.
What concerns me most is that there is little or no counter to the type of programming that glorifies chav culture, materialism, a "screw you" attitude to authority and a rejection of education and advancement through skill and hardwork. The endless Reality programmes are an anathema to more traditional values of recognition through ability.
Perhaps "Shameless" is only harmless entertainment, and taken in isolation it probably is. However, when viewed as part of a general attitude that comes from television these days I can't help but be worried that it actually represents much more.
It has won a number of awards, and been nominated for Best TV Drama 2005 in the prestigious South Bank Awards.
Generally I do defend creative freedom and experimentation. I come from an media and film background after all. However, it does sadden me that not only have the standards of mainstream terrestrial (and much cable/satelite) television fallen through the floor, but that any attempt at setting a moral standard is now actively sneered at.
Many of my contemporaries now spend most of their time making either another "100 Best....(insert anything here) or Big Brother. The intrinsic value of this most transient of programming is pretty much nil in my honest opinion. I could never devote my time or effort to making such stuff - maybe that's my problem.
The mirror debate has long raged amongst Media Commentators and Sociologists - ie. does the media shape society or simply reflect it (Ie hold a mirror up to society). Most would now agree that it is a symbiotic relationship, and one influences the other in a perpetual cycle of cause and effect.
The real problem is, that over time, continued exposure to violent or valueless media does have a negative effect on most people, especially the more impressionable and less educated. Experiments using test subjects which are then exposed to a series of very violent images have clearly shown that people can be desensitised to such images very quickly.
The fact is that television is the most powerful mediumto have ever existed - it comes into people's homes and can shape their attitudes, values and beliefs.
What concerns me most is that there is little or no counter to the type of programming that glorifies chav culture, materialism, a "screw you" attitude to authority and a rejection of education and advancement through skill and hardwork. The endless Reality programmes are an anathema to more traditional values of recognition through ability.
Perhaps "Shameless" is only harmless entertainment, and taken in isolation it probably is. However, when viewed as part of a general attitude that comes from television these days I can't help but be worried that it actually represents much more.
I'll certainly agree that television is getting worse.. There is very little that I will go out of my way to watch or record.
Palin's travels feature highly, I'll watch The Simpsons, Top Gear and Little Britain… but aside from that I find myself watching films, MTV or even repeats like Porridge…
Still, while tele continues to decline, at least I'm getting plenty of other stuff done and using my time more wisely...
Palin's travels feature highly, I'll watch The Simpsons, Top Gear and Little Britain… but aside from that I find myself watching films, MTV or even repeats like Porridge…
Still, while tele continues to decline, at least I'm getting plenty of other stuff done and using my time more wisely...
I thought it was really funny! I must say I agree with what has been said by Podie and Phillvr6. I don't think it in any way glorifies the family and the way they act, to me it shows them to be desperate and pathetic in the extreme. I'm not too happy about the fact that they're supposed to live in Stretford though, Stretford is nothing like that, it looks more like Hulme or some places in north Manchester to me.
IvIark said:
I must say I agree with what has been said by Podie and Phillvr6. I don't think it in any way glorifies the family and the way they act, to me it shows them to be desperate and pathetic in the extreme. I'm not too happy about the fact that they're supposed to live in Stretford though, Stretford is nothing like that, it looks more like Hulme or some places in north Manchester to me.
Fair enough. I guess my concern is a more general one, and I happened to pick on "Shameless" simply becuase I saw it and it seemed to represent the problems I outlined above.
Problem is that even though they are perhaps desperate and pathetic, it is all too easy for TV to make them into Anti-heroes...and heaven knows Chavs need positive role models...
(Ps. I may have another SH for you before too long...)
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who gets Shameless. The main character is a feckless moron. He is not painted as anything else. He is not a hero. The "heroes" are his kids, who get on with running a large family in a loving supportive manner and who will definitely not grow up to be like their useless father.
I'm as annoyed as anyone else at the culture being created by this government, but choose your targets better than this, please.
I'm as annoyed as anyone else at the culture being created by this government, but choose your targets better than this, please.
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