Discussion
I was chatting to my Tax Advisor on the phone today and he’s got a bunch of Tax-planning ideas he wants to put to me, including offshore accounts, EBT’s (employee benefit trusts) and the like.
Years ago, I’d have been irritated by such practises, but nowadays I begrudge every damn penny that I pay in Tax - especially when I see the huge Government waste. I watch the money leave my company account and then it arrives in my personal account – minus 50%, or thereabouts. The Government are in the middle siphoning off the money to pay for a “lesbian awareness campaign”, or some such.
Anyway, what’s the PH take on such Tax planning practises? Before people take the moral high ground, remember that everything is totally legal – and will even get approval by the Revenue. Also, to my mind everyone should plan their finances so that they are Tax efficient regardless of the sums involved.
Years ago, I’d have been irritated by such practises, but nowadays I begrudge every damn penny that I pay in Tax - especially when I see the huge Government waste. I watch the money leave my company account and then it arrives in my personal account – minus 50%, or thereabouts. The Government are in the middle siphoning off the money to pay for a “lesbian awareness campaign”, or some such.
Anyway, what’s the PH take on such Tax planning practises? Before people take the moral high ground, remember that everything is totally legal – and will even get approval by the Revenue. Also, to my mind everyone should plan their finances so that they are Tax efficient regardless of the sums involved.
srebbe64 said:Too true, but a word of caution. Hope your adviser also warned of the interest Red Dawn (Primorothingy) is taking in these tax avoidance schemes, and that she has gone on record as saying that there will be retrospective legislation to tackle them, and it's coming soon. At least that's what my tax adviser said to me last week during our regular greedy gordon summits. Maybe enough folk voting for the other bunch of useless muppets will help, they're no better in many ways but Tories do seem to take a slightly more friendly line on car use and running businesses...
I was chatting to my Tax Advisor on the phone today and he’s got a bunch of Tax-planning ideas he wants to put to me, including offshore accounts, EBT’s (employee benefit trusts) and the like...Also, to my mind everyone should plan their finances so that they are Tax efficient regardless of the sums involved.
turbobloke said:
I was chatting to my Tax Advisor on the phone today and he’s got a bunch of Tax-planning ideas he wants to put to me, including offshore accounts, EBT’s (employee benefit trusts) and the like...Also, to my mind everyone should plan their finances so that they are Tax efficient regardless of the sums involved.
Too true, but a word of caution. Hope your adviser also warned of the interest Red Dawn (Primorothingy) is taking in these tax avoidance schemes, and that she has gone on record as saying that there will be retrospective legislation to tackle them, and it's coming soon. At least that's what my tax adviser said to me last week during our regular greedy gordon summits. Maybe enough folk voting for the other bunch of useless muppets will help, they're no better in many ways but Tories do seem to take a slightly more friendly line on car use and running businesses...
My understanding is that if a tax reducing device is found to be non-conforming to current legislation, then yes there could be retrospective tax payable. However, if the Revenue confirm that what you're doing conforms to Revenue legislation then they couldn't change the rules and retrospectively charge you.
Nothing wrong with tax avoidance at all- just be aware of what drives your "advisor" - is it commission on sales of so called "tax efficient" products ??
(recently had an experience in the family where I needed to sack our "independent" advisor for inappropriate(?) advice which crystalised a huge tax bill from offshore assets - I'm considering legal action ).
If you know of any legal schemes for IHT avoidance via offshoring I'd be interested to hear more ....
(recently had an experience in the family where I needed to sack our "independent" advisor for inappropriate(?) advice which crystalised a huge tax bill from offshore assets - I'm considering legal action ).
If you know of any legal schemes for IHT avoidance via offshoring I'd be interested to hear more ....
alfaman said:
Nothing wrong with tax avoidance at all- just be aware of what drives your "advisor" - is it commission on sales of so called "tax efficient" products ??
(recently had an experience in the family where I needed to sack our "independent" advisor for inappropriate(?) advice which crystalised a huge tax bill from offshore assets - I'm considering legal action ).
If you know of any legal schemes for IHT avoidance via offshoring I'd be interested to hear more ....
What initiated my discussion was the fact that I'm considering emigrating and one of the issues was to move somewhere that is "tax friendly" (Monaco, Barbados, etc).
Its not as easy as it used to be - many opportunities to set up offshore "entities" in which to hold family assets were closed in 1994 - a friend of mine (ex investment banking family )did this - some of the mechanisms are now closed for my family unfortunately.
Edit to add : If IHT is the issue - purchasing a farm business in the UK ... exemption from IHT in 2 years (?)IIRC.
>> Edited by alfaman on Friday 7th January 21:18
Edit to add : If IHT is the issue - purchasing a farm business in the UK ... exemption from IHT in 2 years (?)IIRC.
>> Edited by alfaman on Friday 7th January 21:18
srebbe64 said:I'm just quoting my adviser quoting his technical advisers quoting Red Dawn, so probably a load of bunkum but I wanted to raise the possibility as Red Dawn seems to be seriously interested in helping Gordon to plug his fiscal black hole at the expense of businesses, and may introduce - so the story goes - primary legislation if necessary to make the new rules retrospective. Just so long as you;re sure it won't happen...
My understanding is that if a tax reducing device is found to be non-conforming to current legislation, then yes there could be retrospective tax payable. However, if the Revenue confirm that what you're doing conforms to Revenue legislation then they couldn't change the rules and retrospectively charge you.
srebbe64 said:
What initiated my discussion was the fact that I'm considering emigrating and one of the issues was to move somewhere that is "tax friendly" (Monaco, Barbados, etc).
Have a look at Malta,.......
Surrounded by the beautiful clear blue Med......
No inheritance tax there........
turbobloke said:
I'm just quoting my adviser quoting his technical advisers quoting Red Dawn, so probably a load of bunkum
The fact that it sounds like a load of old bunkum, could be an indication that's exactly what the Government are planning! If they tried to tax me retrospectively, it's fair to say that I'd make a robust defense - before emigrating!
Wacky Racer said:
What initiated my discussion was the fact that I'm considering emigrating and one of the issues was to move somewhere that is "tax friendly" (Monaco, Barbados, etc).
Have a look at Malta,.......
Surrounded by the beautiful clear blue Med......
No inheritance tax there........
Better still, no Corporation Tax in Malta - it's definitely on my radar!
alfaman said:
(recently had an experience in the family where I needed to sack our "independent" advisor for inappropriate(?) advice which crystalised a huge tax bill from offshore assets - I'm considering legal action ).
If you know of any legal schemes for IHT avoidance via offshoring I'd be interested to hear more ....
You can only be taxed on what you've earned ,so if you've had a huge tax bill - then presumably by proprtion you must have earned a humungous ammount of money.
So count your blessings and move on. How much more do you really need?
>> Edited by sparkythecat on Friday 7th January 21:30
sparkythecat said:Not so. Tax on earnings is still ludicrously high, the rest you can save is taxed, you buy some things and if they appreciate in value you get taxed when you sell them, then what's left is handed down and still taxed again - they're taking the p155.
You can only be taxed on what you've earned ,so if you've had a huge tax bill - then presumably by proprtion you must have earned a humungous ammount of money. So count your blessings and move on. How much more do you really need?
How much anyone needs isn't the point. What basic right does any government have to appropriate anything beyond the absolute minimum of other people's money? Other than their self-given right of course, which doesn't count but is valid in law...money that after all they have not had to work for ... as most governments consist of incapables, unable to do anything useful outside of politics.
Beyond the minimum, taxation is nothing more than state sanctioned robbery with menaces. You can't help people / society in any permanent and meaningful way by giving out everything for free. Emergencies and the genuinely needy apart. A more balanced approach to the welfare state would do a lot of people a lot of good in focusing their energy on individual responsibilities, ahead of the usual selfish concern for 'rights' (to claim benefits etc).
srebbe64 said:
Better still, no Corporation Tax in Malta - it's definitely on my radar!
Certainly worth a closer look...
Although a small Island, Maltese people are extremely friendly, everybody speaks English, and they drive on the same side of the road as the UK..(most of the time......
...) I have a property in Mellieha, and hope to retire out there, (at least in the winter months) in a few years......
Hey, paying lots of tax is the new fashion! He who pays the most goes to heaven. Or something 
The problem I haven't solved with moving to a nice warn tax haven is - what do you do for money when you get there?
Mind you, selling cans of Lilt on the beach from one of those thatched jobbies has its appeal!!
The problem I haven't solved with moving to a nice warn tax haven is - what do you do for money when you get there?
Mind you, selling cans of Lilt on the beach from one of those thatched jobbies has its appeal!!
turbobloke said:
Not so. Tax on earnings is still ludicrously high, the rest you can save is taxed, you buy some things and if they appreciate in value you get taxed when you sell them, then what's left is handed down and still taxed again - they're taking the p155.
.
But you don't get taxed on your savings - you only pay tax on the interest earned on those savings.
So if you have a £1000 and get interest at 5%. You get £50. If you are the taxed at 40% you lose £20
But you're still £30 better off and you've done bugger all to earn that £30. Not even had to get out of bed for it. So it's not really that bad is it?
That other £20 has gone towards running the country. Whether or not that money's wisely spent is a different matter. However - you do get to vote on who spends it on your behalf.
srebbe64 said:
everything is totally legal – and will even get approval by the Revenue.
Is there such a thing as an 'approved' scheme? The way I see it is that you're either PAYE, in an illegal scheme or in a scheme that the IR haven't made illegal yet. Or am I being too cynical?
srebbe64 said:
My understanding is that if a tax reducing device is found to be non-conforming to current legislation, then yes there could be retrospective tax payable. However, if the Revenue confirm that what you're doing conforms to Revenue legislation then they couldn't change the rules and retrospectively charge you.
How does this work then? If it's non-conforming, then you have to pay the tax that's due + penalties + interest. If it's conforming to legislation then as you say they can't change the rules and backdate them (we all hope...) How could there be retrospective tax payable?
I have a vested interest in these things as I am currently, as of yesterday, under investigation for my 2002-03 tax return for just such a scheme. Ho hum, here's hoping my tax advisors were right!
Wacky Racer said:
Better still, no Corporation Tax in Malta - it's definitely on my radar!
Certainly worth a closer look...
Although a small Island, Maltese people are extremely friendly, everybody speaks English, and they drive on the same side of the road as the UK..(most of the time......
I have a property in Mellieha, and hope to retire out there, (at least in the winter months) in a few years......
What is the income tax like - and the yachting (I know the rock climbing is ok) ? - I'm looking for a cheap and warm place to move to where Ican live off investment income (I'm not currently working) - trying to see if I can make the numbers stack up
turbobloke said:
You can only be taxed on what you've earned ,so if you've had a huge tax bill - then presumably by proprtion you must have earned a humungous ammount of money. So count your blessings and move on. How much more do you really need?
Not so. Tax on earnings is still ludicrously high, the rest you can save is taxed, you buy some things and if they appreciate in value you get taxed when you sell them, then what's left is handed down and still taxed again - they're taking the p155.
How much anyone needs isn't the point. What basic right does any government have to appropriate anything beyond the absolute minimum of other people's money? Other than their self-given right of course, which doesn't count but is valid in law...money that after all they have not had to work for ... as most governments consist of incapables, unable to do anything useful outside of politics.
Beyond the minimum, taxation is nothing more than state sanctioned robbery with menaces. You can't help people / society in any permanent and meaningful way by giving out everything for free. Emergencies and the genuinely needy apart. A more balanced approach to the welfare state would do a lot of people a lot of good in focusing their energy on individual responsibilities, ahead of the usual selfish concern for 'rights' (to claim benefits etc).
Absolutely .... the offshore stuff wasnt earned income - it was family assets (income tax already paid at 40 % ) - which got nailed for a huge CGT bill by innapropriate onshoring !
Sparky : I don't have a problem with paying income tax - but don't see why I should pay tax twice and basically get my d*ck nailed to the table - financially speaking.
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