Making a complaint about a doctor/GP

[Mrs Fish]

Is it worth doing? Has anyone else done it, and if so what was the outcome?

Is there a particular place to complain to and if so does anyone have any details.

Thanks

[apache]

You and me both Mrs F

[RobDickinson]

1st point of call would be the PCT, they should have a proper formal complaints procedure.

Then the GMC.

www.gmc-uk.org/probdocs/default.htm

>> Edited by RobDickinson on Tuesday 11th January 10:39

[Julian64]

Mrs Fish I cannot emphasize this enough.

Go talk to the Doctor himself. No point in making a complaint straight to the PCT. If you do the PCT will immediately send it to the GP anyway and the in-house complaints proceedure will start. Before it does you have a chance to get some genuine answers.

There is a difference however between genuinely trying to sort out a problem with your GP and trying to piss him off though. The GP still has a lot of power in this situation.

Whichever you're trying to do, go through the practice before you go to the PCT. You will be in a better position later on.

If you want to give me more details either on or off list I will try to help. Which ever of the two you want to do.

[Mrs Fish]

Thanks Julian

Its not something I have been having a problem with myself, its my parents doctor and what I have heard this morning after speaking to my mum has just incensed me a little. I just wanted to get some info on the matter so I can arm my mother and she can do with the info as she wishes.

The main reason is the fact that as an emergency doctor on call he was called out to my dad over christmas, he didn't even examine him just said he looked ok and to start eating some vegetables to regain his strength, (my dad has hardly eaten since Boxing Day... amongst other problems) Well yesterday my mum took him to the doctors again (another one) and he was taken immediately into hospital where he is now undergoing tests in the cardiac ward. Its not looking great at the moment.

Now this may look like a knee jerk reaction on my part, and I know Doctors are'nt infallible its just that this coupled with what else I have heard from my mum this morning, just doesn't seem right.

Doctors are supposed to be sympathetic aren't they, and have good patient relations?

From what I have heard I can't imagine that speaking to him first is going to do a blind bit of good...

[chim_knee]

You're right to persevere with the diagnosis Mrs Fish - it's many years ago now (nearly 30) but my Dad went to see his doctor with chest pains and shortness of breath. The doctor looked at him and said "you're too young to have heart disease" (he was 29) and sent him away with "indigestion". Shortly afterwards he had a heart attack and underwent emergency by-pass surgery (5 arteries so pretty significant - I don't know the "double", "triple", "quadruple" word for 5!). So never accept a diagnosis you aren't happy with.

[chim_knee]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

thanks!

[Julian64]

Okay, first stop you go to your mum/dad, and get a simple one sentence signed letter saying you have consent to discuss their medical affairs.

Then you ring the surgery and book an appointment in his name to see his doctor (do not tell the reception is about a complaint). You turn up at that appointment armed with the letter, and one other person that you can later rely on.

Inform the GP (in as friendlier manner as you can muster) the details as told to you and then wait for his response. Whether you agree with what he says or not let him speak.

Do this for three reasons. The doctor may not even be aware that your dad is in hospital. Your comments will then elict a genuine response and likely a genuine reply. Most doctors start from the premise of wanting to help patients and generally feel upset if their patient suffers, or that they have made a mistake. Its only after you get over this feeling as a doctor that you start to cover your arse. If he's been negligent its during this conversation he will likely hang himself with what he says and you will have a witness with you to record. Its your dads registered doctor who's still responsible for his out of hours care even if it wasn't him who came to see (at least up to jan 1st)

Secondly the ulimate arbitor of a complaint against a doctor should you feel the need to go that far is a Panel hearing of three lay people and two doctors. They will see the inital approach to the doctor himself as a very positive move by you, in the way that they often see a direct complaint to the GMC or PCT without bothering to talk to the doctor first as a very negative move by you.

If the doctor is stupid enough to stop the inital consultation with you, they will also see that as a very negative move on his part.

This consultation will be the only time you get to see this doctor without him having the benefit of legal advice and therefore without the stilted converstaion that usually gives, and the best chance to find out what went wrong.

What you then do with that information is a different story.

[968]

Mrs Fish said:

Thanks Julian Now this may look like a knee jerk reaction on my part, and I know Doctors are'nt infallible its just that this coupled with what else I have heard from my mum this morning, just doesn't seem right.

Mrs F, I think Julian is right (he's probably punching the air!) it is probably best to go to the practice first and speak to the manager or perhaps the lead GP and discuss your issues with them, prior to taking this complaint further. Often action can be taken without recourse to drastic measures, also sometimes, wires can be crossed.

As an example, recently, I had a complaint from a patient, the patient came to the clinic in a real state, dirty and covered in faeces and smelling of urine. I wrote a letter to his GP suggesting that his social situation needed to be looked into, as the patient "attended in a rather unkempt state"

The GP proceeded to tell the patient that "the hospital doctor thought you stunk" which is not what I said, at all. The patient complained to the department, and I replied to him personally, apologising for any offense caused, but explaining my position. The patient replied and said that the GP had said something entirely different to what I had written in the letter, and he apologised to me, and is pursuing a complaint about his GP.

Moral of the story is, dialogue between patients and doctors can get to the root of the problem.....

[Julian64]

968 said:

Mrs Fish said: Thanks Julian Now this may look like a knee jerk reaction on my part, and I know Doctors are'nt infallible its just that this coupled with what else I have heard from my mum this morning, just doesn't seem right. Mrs F, I think Julian is right (he's probably punching the air!) it is probably best to go to the practice first and speak to the manager or perhaps the lead GP and discuss your issues with them, prior to taking this complaint further. Often action can be taken without recourse to drastic measures, also sometimes, wires can be crossed. As an example, recently, I had a complaint from a patient, the patient came to the clinic in a real state, dirty and covered in faeces and smelling of urine. I wrote a letter to his GP suggesting that his social situation needed to be looked into, as the patient "attended in a rather unkempt state" The GP proceeded to tell the patient that "the hospital doctor thought you stunk" which is not what I said, at all. The patient complained to the department, and I replied to him personally, apologising for any offense caused, but explaining my position. The patient replied and said that the GP had said something entirely different to what I had written in the letter, and he apologised to me, and is pursuing a complaint about his GP. Moral of the story is, dialogue between patients and doctors can get to the root of the problem.....

Nope, I have my head in my hands that you've turned up on this thread.

I'm just waiting for your trademark, GP insults, while I reach for my coat.

[968]

Julian64 said:

I'm just waiting for your trademark, GP insults, while I reach for my coat.

Don't start crying Julian, I was actually agreeing with you, what you have posted is very sensible and very correct and may avoid a great deal of hassle for all parties.

PS get rid of your GP chip on your shoulder

>> Edited by 968 on Tuesday 11th January 12:00

[nick heppinstall]

All the best for your Dad Lisa. Hope he gets better soon.

[968]

nick heppinstall said:

All the best for your Dad Lisa. Hope he gets better soon.

here here

[lanciachris]

My grandma was 67 when she went to the doctor complaining of chest pains and difficulty to breath. The doctor told her that there was nothing wrong with her. 3 days later she died of the extended heart attack that had been causing the pain and difficulty in breathing.

[Mrs Fish]

Thanks for the help Julian and 968, I'll chew it over as they say.

[968]

lanciachris said:

My grandma was 67 when she went to the doctor complaining of chest pains and difficulty to breath. The doctor told her that there was nothing wrong with her. 3 days later she died of the extended heart attack that had been causing the pain and difficulty in breathing.

I am so sorry to hear that, and all the other stories. It's difficult to hear, as a medical person, such things, but it's necessary that people know.

Personally, if there is ever a possibility of a serious problem, I always like to exclude that first, before sending a patient away. However, I have the luxury of working in a hospital, and have access to all sorts of tests and personnel, so it's much much easier for me than for a poor bugger in a GP surgery who has little to go on. However, in their shoes, if in doubt, pick up the phone and refer, or at least discuss....

[Buffalo]

Mrs Fish said:

...an emergency doctor on call he was called out to my dad over christmas, he didn't even examine him just said he looked ok and to start eating some vegetables to regain his strength,

I think a lot of this will have come down to the fact an ermergency doctor looked over your dad and not "his" doctor.

I had a similar occurrence to this with my own father, basically because our health service now runs this wierd set up, whereby doctors are on rota out of hours.

Whereas before you could ring up his own doctor, who would come out (with knowledge of patient notes etc) now you get someone from another surgery entirely.

The time my dad needed the use of one, we got a lady who looked more ill than my father, genuinely shouldn't have been there, knew nothing of my fathers case history, didn't examine him at all (probably because she felt so rough herself) and spent all of 5 minutes in the house despite it taking her 40minutes to drive to our rural locaton from whereever she was based.

I know this isn't the place to start a rant about how things are slipping etc, but i know this wouldn't have happened under his own doctor.

Dad did go and see his own doctor later that week and that doctor did put in a professional performance which resulted in Dad being treated as perhaps he should have been from the day the emergency doctor was called.

So, i definitely think that you need to be objective, but give the real doctor the benefit of the doubt at the moment.

I really would suggest getting a letter from your parents giving you access to medical records etc. I could really have done with one of those when our situation turned sour later on, but that is another story and i don't want to panic you.

CHeers

[superlightr]

Mrs Fish said:

Is it worth doing? Has anyone else done it, and if so what was the outcome? Is there a particular place to complain to and if so does anyone have any details. Thanks

I think there are afair few people feel that they would like to complain about their GP/hospital/medical care. We have been in that situation recently.

We were lucky that no long term damage was caused and asked ourselves what do we want to get out of the process of a complaint?

Will it solve anything? Will it reverse the problem? Will it help someone else? What is the stress levels it will casue you?

We decided not to pursue a complaint against a hospital. Nobody died or were long term injured, although they nearly were if I had not read up on the symptoms and suggested investigations. (merternaty)

GP's - one of ours gave misdiognosis and clearly bad advice. We no longer see him.


Hopy your relative recovers quickly.

[Julian64]

superlightr said:

Mrs Fish said: Is it worth doing? Has anyone else done it, and if so what was the outcome? Is there a particular place to complain to and if so does anyone have any details. Thanks I think there are afair few people feel that they would like to complain about their GP/hospital/medical care. We have been in that situation recently. We were lucky that no long term damage was caused and asked ourselves what do we want to get out of the process of a complaint? Will it solve anything? Will it reverse the problem? Will it help someone else? What is the stress levels it will casue you? We decided not to pursue a complaint against a hospital. Nobody died or were long term injured, although they nearly were if I had not read up on the symptoms and suggested investigations. (merternaty) GP's - one of ours gave misdiognosis and clearly bad advice. We no longer see him. Hopy your relative recovers quickly.

Good reply, it is important to know what you want from the complaint.

From my perspective as a GP, I want a constructive complaint that I can learn from and change myself and the rest of my practice to hopefully improve things.

Unfortunately in this world there are two big hurdles to that.

One, is that most of the complaints we recieve are from the sort of people who just want to hurl abuse or have no understanding and don't want any. It would truly be refershing to get a complaint from someone I could sit down and discuss things sensibly with.

Two, the letiginous society we now live in. I started by paying £300 per year in medical insurance and now pay £4200. People see pound signs and the no win no fee buggers are all around. All hospital doctors are now covered by crown immunity to financial costs, which is as it should be but GP's are not.

I don't think there is a GP I know who wouldn't admit to having made mistakes, some more serious than others. But doctors can sometimes tend to clam up because they know that a solicitor is just round the corner, and going to court is at best a lottery. Its certainly never going to be the place you find the truth.

[KentishS2]

I work in a medical field and I do honestly understand the position of GP's and that they can't always get it right but my Mother has also experienced very poor advice from her GP on several occasions.

It appears that her GP is not willing to check on simple things within her notes and has prescribed medications with contraindications in the past and more recently over Christmas my Mum has experienced a bad rash and irritation over many parts of her body which became unbearable and her GP advised her she had Scabies probably because he has read in this weeks medical jounal that it is becoming more common.

Anyway, had he thought to have checked her records he would have noticed that she takes a medication called Zantac for an old stomach ulcer, the product label for Zantac cearly states that it can cause a rash exactly as she had described to her GP and not even similar to the rash scabies causes. I advised her to stop taking the Zantac and the rash cleared within 12 hours, bingo!

Similarly, I had a bladder infection when I was approx 16 (many years ago) and the family GP insisted I had an STD, I didn't even know what an STD was back then let alone lead a sexually active lifestyle at such a young age and to be honest having a 50 year old man shove a cotton swab up the end of my manhood was a very unpleasant experience!

The BMA have information regarding patient concerns here:-
www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/concernabtcare