In Search Of Speed BBC4

[shirley temple]

good old Labour govt, giving supersonic technology to the yanks and shutting down Miles mach 1 program! I' glad to be British

[roop]

Yep, utterly apalling isn't it. What's more the miles didn't need a lightweight rocket engine nor dropping from a B-52. It had a proper jet engine and could take off and land of it's own accord. A team of US engineers visited Miles, took several key design principles with them (rumour has it the all moving tailplane was one) and then the return visit for Miles engineers to visit the US development area was cancelled and they were barred from visiting. The UK government then shut the M.52 project down.

Makes you wonder if we got a back hander from the US Government to allow them to do it first doesn't it...?

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not anti-American - The Americans have invented some wonderful things which we owe thanks for, but on the occasion of the first aircraft to break the sound barrier, we were comprehensively robbed without question...

Don't get me started on the TSR2 and F-111 saga...

shirley temple said:

good old Labour govt, giving supersonic technology to the yanks and shutting down Miles mach 1 program! I' glad to be British

[shirley temple]

TSR2

That'll be the one that would still out perform a tornado then?Would most likely to have been the first supersonic jet not to need afterburner to achieve or maintain mach1+. And that Fwit Healey denied ordering its destruction (like they burned nearly everything) even when presented with the memo,with his signature on it

A former neighbour knew Roland Beaumont, the test pilot, that aeroplane had the Americans quaking in thier boots it was so advanced.

[FourWheelDrift]

shirley temple said:

TSR2 That'll be the one that would still out perform a tornado then?Would most likely to have been the first supersonic jet not to need afterburner to achieve or maintain mach1+. And that Fwit Healey denied ordering its destruction (like they burned nearly everything) .

2 exist, one at Duxford and one at Cosford. The rest were dismantled, some bit's being used as jewellery.

[shirley temple]

FourWheelDrift said:

2 exist, one at Duxford and one at Cosford. The rest were dismantled, some bit's being used as jewellery.

Yes but the rest and allof the drawings and tooling were burned,When Interviewed about it,Healey (I'm sure it was him) he agreed that it was his signature on the destruction notice that was shown to him,but he never signed the order!! Bare faced lying commie fk wit

[Le TVR]

TSR2
Probably the greatest story of political incompetence in aviation history. Labour may have nailed the coffin shut with the unwarranted destruction of tooling, jigs, plans, drawings such that neither the project not any part of it could be revived later. However, the real demise was probably down to the scanadalous activities of a certain Lord Mountbatten.

But to be honest, as good as TSR2 was, there were operational shortcomings and it didnt have enough wing. But without doubt, for its time it was way ahead.

[telecat]

Le TVR said:

TSR2 Probably the greatest story of political incompetence in aviation history. Labour may have nailed the coffin shut with the unwarranted destruction of tooling, jigs, plans, drawings such that neither the project not any part of it could be revived later. However, the real demise was probably down to the scanadalous activities of a certain Lord Mountbatten. But to be honest, as good as TSR2 was, there were operational shortcomings and it didnt have enough wing. But without doubt, for its time it was way ahead.

But prototype's could be improved and the RAF wanted it. The opponents led by Mountbatten argued the FB-111 would be a cheaper option and won. Guess what, No F-111 ever entered service with the RAF or FAA. It was too big and Clumsy for the FAA and too small for the RAF. As a stratagist Mountbatten was useless. As for Healey I lived in his area for years and thought he was a prat! Then I discovered the damage caused to British industry by this idiot. So much waffle about leading the world, only to give the best ideas to the USA and deny the aircraft industry the chance to produce the aircraft the RAF and FAA needed. Even when we did have world beaters the support given was derisory. The Harrier was so dilited by the time it went into service that the RAF were unsure what to do with it.

[apache]

roop said:

(rumour has it the all moving tailplane was one)

Not rumour, absolutely true and fundamental to the yanks breaking the sound barrier.

[Rob-C]

I suspect the Miles thing was simple naivety - the US cut us off from a lot of military collaborations around that time (eg A-bomb development).

Binning the TSR2 was the price Labour were willing to pay for short-term US support in propping up the pound and securing loans from the IMF.

See

www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/johnsonlb/xii/2279.htm

I like the line, "It was agreed to begin with that this was a meeting which never occurred."