Fines could be linked to earnings
Discussion
That’s going to sting a bit!!
Higher earners will face increased fines for minor offences, if government plans become law.
A scheme for calculating fines that would take into account an offender's income is proposed in the Management of Offenders Bill, published on Thursday.
Under the bill, the maximum fine for an offence like failing to stop after an accident would triple to £15,000.
The Tories said the bill aimed to make the middle classes pay for government's failure to manage the justice system.
The government said it was fair that better-off people paid more than those who earned less.
Courts already consider an offender's ability to pay when setting fines.
But BBC political correspondent Carole Walker said: "The new scheme will include a more explicit calculation of the offender's daily disposable income."
link
Higher earners will face increased fines for minor offences, if government plans become law.
A scheme for calculating fines that would take into account an offender's income is proposed in the Management of Offenders Bill, published on Thursday.
Under the bill, the maximum fine for an offence like failing to stop after an accident would triple to £15,000.
The Tories said the bill aimed to make the middle classes pay for government's failure to manage the justice system.
The government said it was fair that better-off people paid more than those who earned less.
Courts already consider an offender's ability to pay when setting fines.
But BBC political correspondent Carole Walker said: "The new scheme will include a more explicit calculation of the offender's daily disposable income."
link
Ach.. I placed this on SP&L as well about 5 mins ago...
But Liebchen .. what happens if we refuse to cough up?
Ist that why the emptied
Durham Jail
But... it really does prove it is stealth tax ... why else would they want a rich bloke to pay more?
Penalised enough for having nice job - by paying of taxes on it. Und penalised for having nice home - by paying taxes on it.
Und now - if I speed no doubt - they will fine me all the more harshly ....for working hard.
Und then lock me up in Durham Jail when I refuse to pay any more than other citizens.
But Liebchen .. what happens if we refuse to cough up?
Ist that why the emptied
Durham Jail But... it really does prove it is stealth tax ... why else would they want a rich bloke to pay more?
Penalised enough for having nice job - by paying of taxes on it. Und penalised for having nice home - by paying taxes on it.
Und now - if I speed no doubt - they will fine me all the more harshly ....for working hard.
Und then lock me up in Durham Jail when I refuse to pay any more than other citizens.
WildCat said:
Ach.. I placed this on SP&L as well about 5 mins ago...
But Liebchen .. what happens if we refuse to cough up?
Ist that why the emptied
But... it really does prove it is stealth tax ... why else would they want a rich bloke to pay more?
Penalised enough for having nice job - by paying of taxes on it. Und penalised for having nice home - by paying taxes on it.
Und now - if I speed no doubt - they will fine me all the more harshly ....for working hard.
Und then lock me up in Durham Jail when I refuse to pay any more than other citizens.
How about The Cat o'Nine Tails. Just for you...
Thats an easy one!
I would quit my job before the court case and become a scrounger for a few weeks, then go back to work afterwards.
Seriously though, I think this is just another big brother tactic to stick their noses into our business.
If you can't prove exactly how you spend your money and that you are being taxed enough, you will be criminalised.
The next time a cop car stops you it will be because you are a known income tax evader with too much expendable income! In other words we will all be the geese that lay golden eggs.
I wonder if the fines will go down for those on the dole...actually that would be pointless as dolies don't pay the fines anyway.
>> Edited by hedders on Friday 14th January 08:17
I would quit my job before the court case and become a scrounger for a few weeks, then go back to work afterwards.
Seriously though, I think this is just another big brother tactic to stick their noses into our business.
If you can't prove exactly how you spend your money and that you are being taxed enough, you will be criminalised.
The next time a cop car stops you it will be because you are a known income tax evader with too much expendable income! In other words we will all be the geese that lay golden eggs.
I wonder if the fines will go down for those on the dole...actually that would be pointless as dolies don't pay the fines anyway.
>> Edited by hedders on Friday 14th January 08:17
It's completely logical to set fines according to income. If you use fines for their deterent value, then it only works if it hurts the law breaker. A GBP 1000 fine is a month's wages for some, and peanuts to others - ie no deterent.
This has been tried before in the UK for speeding fines. I was and still am, a habitual speeder, and the financial penalty means nothing to me. When there was a threat of an income related fine, which would have been effing high, then I did modify my behaviour.
So yes. In theory, quite logical.
This has been tried before in the UK for speeding fines. I was and still am, a habitual speeder, and the financial penalty means nothing to me. When there was a threat of an income related fine, which would have been effing high, then I did modify my behaviour.
So yes. In theory, quite logical.
Logical - but unworkable. EVERY fine, penalty etc will have to be "assessed" in some way or other. In other words, form filling, declarations and all the usual associated paraphenalia will have to be performed by the person fined. That in itself will become a legal matter as, no doubt, it will be a crminal offence to put false information on such an assessment and declaration.
What will be their definition of "Income" anyway (the Inland Revenue have over 30 definitions of Income already). What Income will count for assessing a fine and what Income will be ignored. Will they be valuing people's assets as well?
Will they take into account their outgoings?
Is a person on a £30,000 salary and making annual morgtage repayments totalling £10,000 better off than an individual on a Gross Salary of £21,000 amd who lives at home rent free with his mum? Who would pay the bigger fine?
This idea was mooted by the Conservatives (like most New Labour ideas) a few years ago and then quietly dropped when it became apparent that it would never work.
What will be their definition of "Income" anyway (the Inland Revenue have over 30 definitions of Income already). What Income will count for assessing a fine and what Income will be ignored. Will they be valuing people's assets as well?
Will they take into account their outgoings?
Is a person on a £30,000 salary and making annual morgtage repayments totalling £10,000 better off than an individual on a Gross Salary of £21,000 amd who lives at home rent free with his mum? Who would pay the bigger fine?
This idea was mooted by the Conservatives (like most New Labour ideas) a few years ago and then quietly dropped when it became apparent that it would never work.
Stealth tax pure and simple. If you've got any money you didn't get from the muppets in charge as handouts, they hate you and want your hard-earned to add to the benefits pile they can give to the growing number of labour voting layabout scroungers. Sorry, that should be, give to victims of society.
I was debating whether or not to buy a Road angel or something like it. At present I have no points on my licence so I was debating whether it was worthwhile.
Under the proposed new system just one speeding offence would probably cost me a fine near enough to cover the cost of buying one.
This new system won't change my behaviour-I will continue to ignore ludicrously low limits-I would just invest in additional precautions against being caught.
Under the proposed new system just one speeding offence would probably cost me a fine near enough to cover the cost of buying one.
This new system won't change my behaviour-I will continue to ignore ludicrously low limits-I would just invest in additional precautions against being caught.
bor said:
It's completely logical to set fines according to income. If you use fines for their deterent value, then it only works if it hurts the law breaker. A GBP 1000 fine is a month's wages for some, and peanuts to others - ie no deterent.
This has been tried before in the UK for speeding fines. I was and still am, a habitual speeder, and the financial penalty means nothing to me. When there was a threat of an income related fine, which would have been effing high, then I did modify my behaviour.
So yes. In theory, quite logical.
In theory perhaps, but, as ever, only the law abiding will suffer. Career criminals and lowlife scum don't pay their fines and are seen by the justice system as a lost cause. So the message is very clearly that if you have a reputation and some income the judiciary will make you feel the full force of the law. And if you are a scrounger or a scrote you can expect to continue to flout the judiciary. Particularly poignant a couple of days after that oafish buffoon Clarke tells burglars to continue without fear. The judiciary won't send them to prison and the Government bans the victims from defending themselves.
Labour sees the Middle Classes as a nothing more than a source of revenue to fund their sinister social engineering and their core electorate of pond life.
At what point does justice require the fine to reflect the crime for which it is levied and the social ills that causes.
How do I cause more social ill by speeding than a pikey scrote doing likewise.....so why the f*** should I get robbed by this bunch of greedy twisters.
I for one have had a gut full of funding Phoney Tony and Greedy Gordon's little social experiment and will certainly be doing everything I can to get shot of the buggers.
How do I cause more social ill by speeding than a pikey scrote doing likewise.....so why the f*** should I get robbed by this bunch of greedy twisters.
I for one have had a gut full of funding Phoney Tony and Greedy Gordon's little social experiment and will certainly be doing everything I can to get shot of the buggers.
The more I think about this, the more riled I get. This flouts every value of our society. Why is it a bad thing to have a "two-speed" education or health service (ie, if you can benefit from something by dint of being successful you are socially unacceptable) but a good thing to have the same principal applied to the justice system (where it pays to be a left-wing leech)?
This is the second time in my life I have ever felt genuine hatred towards a Government. The last time I felt this way was under the neo-Nazi nationalist party of apartheid-era South Africa. For God's sake Britain, wake up and get rid of these bastards.
This is the second time in my life I have ever felt genuine hatred towards a Government. The last time I felt this way was under the neo-Nazi nationalist party of apartheid-era South Africa. For God's sake Britain, wake up and get rid of these bastards.
Would this mean that people who break the law when unemployed should get bigger jail sentences than those who work because they have more disposable time available?
just another way to fund the layabout MP's and their hangers on. They can't tax us any more without getting kicked out of office but will try and get our money secretly. Next, it'll be an air tax based on how much co2 be exhale.
just another way to fund the layabout MP's and their hangers on. They can't tax us any more without getting kicked out of office but will try and get our money secretly. Next, it'll be an air tax based on how much co2 be exhale.
up this country, the more likely there will be less voter apathy. 
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