Central Heating pump advice required please.......
Discussion
To all PH Central Heating guru's...........
Ferg!!!!....
For several weeks now, our central heating pump, which is situated in an airing cupboard, next to our bedroom had started to get very noisy, but only intermittently, usually, just after the heating is switched on, but not always so........
The noise can best be described as a pulsating "droning", keeping the same tempo, but then after about fifteen minutes the noise dies down, and is replaced by a quiet hum, which is normal, I would guess.....
The problem is, this usual happens around 7am, waking everybody up, as the "droning" echoes around the upstairs, but at least it does away with the need of an alarm clock.......
The pump, was probably fitted when the house was new, around thirteen years ago, could the bearings be worn perhaps, and if so can they be replaced, or would we have to buy a new pump???
The pump is pink in colour, and is a GRUNDFOS "Selectric" (max 10 bar), and says model UPS 15-05-130..........................
Also, if a new pump is required, what kind of money are we talking about??
Thanks, as usual, in anticipation....
Ferg!!!!.... For several weeks now, our central heating pump, which is situated in an airing cupboard, next to our bedroom had started to get very noisy, but only intermittently, usually, just after the heating is switched on, but not always so........
The noise can best be described as a pulsating "droning", keeping the same tempo, but then after about fifteen minutes the noise dies down, and is replaced by a quiet hum, which is normal, I would guess.....
The problem is, this usual happens around 7am, waking everybody up, as the "droning" echoes around the upstairs, but at least it does away with the need of an alarm clock.......
The pump, was probably fitted when the house was new, around thirteen years ago, could the bearings be worn perhaps, and if so can they be replaced, or would we have to buy a new pump???
The pump is pink in colour, and is a GRUNDFOS "Selectric" (max 10 bar), and says model UPS 15-05-130..........................
Also, if a new pump is required, what kind of money are we talking about??
Thanks, as usual, in anticipation....
Replace the pump. They are dirt cheap, typically £30-£50
<a href="http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/cat.jsp?ts=33203&id=102027">www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/cat.jsp?ts=33203&id=102027</a>
A modern pump is bound to be more effficient than one 13 years old and so will save you money as well as being quieter.
If it doesn't already have them, make sure that when you replace your pump, you put isolating valves each side of it. That way you won't have to drain your whole system down to remove the pump should it any time require future attention.
>> Edited by sparkythecat on Wednesday 26th January 10:12
<a href="http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/cat.jsp?ts=33203&id=102027">www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/cat.jsp?ts=33203&id=102027</a>
A modern pump is bound to be more effficient than one 13 years old and so will save you money as well as being quieter.
If it doesn't already have them, make sure that when you replace your pump, you put isolating valves each side of it. That way you won't have to drain your whole system down to remove the pump should it any time require future attention.
>> Edited by sparkythecat on Wednesday 26th January 10:12
Give your local plumb center (www.plumbcenter.co.uk/) a call. They sell grundfos selectric pumps for about 50 quid. Give them the numbers off yours and they'll sort something suitable out.
Regards,
Mark
Regards,
Mark
It might just be an airlock in the system, especially if the pipes betweeen the boiler and pump have a high point where air can gather.
It happened with our central heating once, shortly after draining and refilling (to install a new radiator). Every time the system switched on in the morning, there was a loud "whoosh" as all the accumulated air went through the pump, followed by the pump humming and gurgling for a short period, until the air had been dispersed around the system. It cured itself in a few weeks (helped by a dose of Fernox), as all the dissolved air boiled out and was vented out of the radiators.
It happened with our central heating once, shortly after draining and refilling (to install a new radiator). Every time the system switched on in the morning, there was a loud "whoosh" as all the accumulated air went through the pump, followed by the pump humming and gurgling for a short period, until the air had been dispersed around the system. It cured itself in a few weeks (helped by a dose of Fernox), as all the dissolved air boiled out and was vented out of the radiators.
Only problem you might have is if your installation has been crammed into a small space (Podie??). One benefit of putting isolating valves either side of the pump is that it might allow you to cut out any sections of pipe near the pump that have been inside compression joints rather than trying to recylce half the joint. Good luck. Say goodbye to the skin on your knuckles and put a physiotherapist on standby.
Editted to say lazy_b makes a very good point.
>> Edited by ATG on Wednesday 26th January 11:31
Editted to say lazy_b makes a very good point.
>> Edited by ATG on Wednesday 26th January 11:31
I had the same problem on a Grunfos pump and replacing it cured it. Cost about £45 as I recall.
Being a bit of a numpty, I wrote it all down, took it to my local trade centre and asked the chap on the counter about it and had he come across the make before.
He laughed and told me that about 99% of domestic central heating pumps were Grunfos.
Edit: Yes, you'll probably need new isolating valves too as they usually seize. They're not expensive though.
>> Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 26th January 12:14
Being a bit of a numpty, I wrote it all down, took it to my local trade centre and asked the chap on the counter about it and had he come across the make before.
He laughed and told me that about 99% of domestic central heating pumps were Grunfos.
Edit: Yes, you'll probably need new isolating valves too as they usually seize. They're not expensive though.
>> Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 26th January 12:14
Well, the PH massive comes up trumps again...
, a very sincere thanks to all the kind Ph'ers who offered advice, just goes to show what a wonderful, helpful forum this is.........
I will try bleeding the pump, but a guess it is more likely that a new one will be required...........
Thanks again......
, a very sincere thanks to all the kind Ph'ers who offered advice, just goes to show what a wonderful, helpful forum this is......... I will try bleeding the pump, but a guess it is more likely that a new one will be required...........
Thanks again......
gtr-gaz said:
All good advice there.
I would just add that the isolating valves will probably be seized. At best they will "let by"
You will more than likely find that you will need to drain part of the system, but it's no big deal.
Following on from this .. you can buy pipe freeze to stop any let by ..
You could also consider autobleed rad valves by Myson
(Aladin Autovent)
http://heatandplumb.com/acatalog/Myson01.html
not cheap at £15 each but do remove rad noise & air.
I've yet to try these - I should add.. but they sound good.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Thanks Tonker, pass on my thanks to your Dad....
Actually Mrs WR's now retired dad was a time served plumber of 25 years standing, and only lives a mile away, but I did not really want to call him round, as I would be duty bound to buy him an expensive bottle of whisky next Christmas as "payment in kind"....
I will try bleeding tomorrow...
FWIW my system has a non-Grundfos pump. The 'other' common pump. Slightly cheaper but you need 2 so you can swap them around when they clog up. Which is about every 2 years.
I had one seize solid - utterly solid - last autumn, after just a few days of humming and 'vibration' noises. It was not very old. I fitted the spare. It made some odd noises just before Xmas, which is when these things always choose to fail.
I now have another one in the airing cupboard - a brand new spare.
Would have brought Grundfos but the purchase was in the middler of may Xmas shopping 2 days before Xmas and the place I was in didn't stock Grundfos and only had one pump left. I bought as a precaution.
Easy swap. Only takes me 10 minutes now - and I am certainly not a plumber.
A long screwdriver works as well as a chisel with less chance of becoming too blunt to use. Chisel has more style though!
I had one seize solid - utterly solid - last autumn, after just a few days of humming and 'vibration' noises. It was not very old. I fitted the spare. It made some odd noises just before Xmas, which is when these things always choose to fail.
I now have another one in the airing cupboard - a brand new spare.
Would have brought Grundfos but the purchase was in the middler of may Xmas shopping 2 days before Xmas and the place I was in didn't stock Grundfos and only had one pump left. I bought as a precaution.
Easy swap. Only takes me 10 minutes now - and I am certainly not a plumber.
A long screwdriver works as well as a chisel with less chance of becoming too blunt to use. Chisel has more style though!
Had my central heating pump, or as the engineer called it, the impeller, just after Xmas, The new one started making noises very simmilar to the old one, so called them out again to change it again. After reluctantly changing it, he said that the droning noise was a build up of "magnatite", (Black sludge to you & me) in the heating system. He showed me one of the pipes he'd cut to fit the new pump in, I guess the bore of the pipe had been restricted by about half with this black stuff. This, he said was causing the graunching & droning sound from the pump. The only way of clearing this out would be to renew the pipework & possibly the boiler 
So far the change on pump & pipework near to the pump has dome the trick, but only time will tell
So far the change on pump & pipework near to the pump has dome the trick, but only time will tell
Sorry Alan...better late than never?
Might be a lack of water causing the 'pulsating', check the header tank has water in it.
If changing it I'd fit a Wilo pump. Grundfos are nice, but their tolerances are such that the smallest bit of crud can stop them firing up on the slower speeds. I buy Grundfos and Wilo for about the same price, £25ish, but in fairly big quantities......
As for changing it...
Make sure the system is cold (i'll explain why in a moment),
Turn off any isolating valves, hopefully gate-type, not screwdriver slot ball-type (which are crap) and loosen the valve-to-pump nut, which is big. If it won't shift buy some pump valves and you may have to cut the nut off and rob one off the new valves. Try to ensure that the water is dripping out at a containable rate, it probably won't stop completely and this is why you should do it cold!!! Dont wind the valves shut mega-tight if they are gate type, they won't open again.
Might be a lack of water causing the 'pulsating', check the header tank has water in it.
If changing it I'd fit a Wilo pump. Grundfos are nice, but their tolerances are such that the smallest bit of crud can stop them firing up on the slower speeds. I buy Grundfos and Wilo for about the same price, £25ish, but in fairly big quantities......
As for changing it...
Make sure the system is cold (i'll explain why in a moment),
Turn off any isolating valves, hopefully gate-type, not screwdriver slot ball-type (which are crap) and loosen the valve-to-pump nut, which is big. If it won't shift buy some pump valves and you may have to cut the nut off and rob one off the new valves. Try to ensure that the water is dripping out at a containable rate, it probably won't stop completely and this is why you should do it cold!!! Dont wind the valves shut mega-tight if they are gate type, they won't open again.
LongQ said:
just before Xmas, which is when these things always choose to fail.
How true. I got a call from my tenant who lives in the small back to back I bought years ago on Christmas eve saying the boiler had packed up. Plumbers on the 27th said it'd need a new £150 circuit board and it'd be a week before they'd have it. I tracked the fault to a relay on the circuit board which I got from the local component factors for £2.30 and soldered it in at new year.
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