House Moving/Solicitors - How Much?
Discussion
Chaps,
Another house-moving thread. Apologies all ...
Mrs zcacogp and I are thinking of selling our flat and moving to a house. We are looking at quotes for solicitors, and wondering what is a reasonable price to pay, and where they start to take the urine.
For instance, we have been quoted £1450+vat for the entire process. This excludes postage and faxing (sounds odd) at £30+vat. It also (obviously) excludes the cost of searches, land registry bits, stamp duty, estate agents fees and so on.
Does this sound reasonable? I'm not concerned about the company (there is a slight family connection, and I am sure they are reputable), more that I am wondering whether they are simply at the "more expensive" end of the scale, as this seems like quite alot.
And another, more general question, to those with more experience of this sort of thing. What advice would you give someone in our situation? What should we watch out for, what should we avoid doing, what is particularly worth doing? What traps do people routinely fall into, and what can be done to avoid them?
All advice welcome!
Oli.
Another house-moving thread. Apologies all ...
Mrs zcacogp and I are thinking of selling our flat and moving to a house. We are looking at quotes for solicitors, and wondering what is a reasonable price to pay, and where they start to take the urine.
For instance, we have been quoted £1450+vat for the entire process. This excludes postage and faxing (sounds odd) at £30+vat. It also (obviously) excludes the cost of searches, land registry bits, stamp duty, estate agents fees and so on.
Does this sound reasonable? I'm not concerned about the company (there is a slight family connection, and I am sure they are reputable), more that I am wondering whether they are simply at the "more expensive" end of the scale, as this seems like quite alot.
And another, more general question, to those with more experience of this sort of thing. What advice would you give someone in our situation? What should we watch out for, what should we avoid doing, what is particularly worth doing? What traps do people routinely fall into, and what can be done to avoid them?
All advice welcome!
Oli.
they certainly are at the more expensive end of the scale. £1500 + vat + extras 
The only reason i could think that they were charging this much is if you are either buying a super expensive house or the title (who the owners are and stuff) is very complex therefore requiring lots of time to sort out.
I work for a solicitors (although i hasten to add am not a lawyer) i reckon you should be looking at just over half of this so around £800 mark + vat to include everything unless something goes wrong.
Feel free to mail/pm me
The only reason i could think that they were charging this much is if you are either buying a super expensive house or the title (who the owners are and stuff) is very complex therefore requiring lots of time to sort out.
I work for a solicitors (although i hasten to add am not a lawyer) i reckon you should be looking at just over half of this so around £800 mark + vat to include everything unless something goes wrong.
Feel free to mail/pm me
rugbyfiend said:
they certainly are at the more expensive end of the scale. £1500 + vat + extras
The only reason i could think that they were charging this much is if you are either buying a super expensive house or the title (who the owners are and stuff) is very complex therefore requiring lots of time to sort out.
I work for a solicitors (although i hasten to add am not a lawyer) i reckon you should be looking at just over half of this so around £800 mark + vat to include everything unless something goes wrong.
Feel free to mail/pm me
Yes and no,
It's a bit expensive but always remember the old phrase, Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
£800 + Vat for a sale and purchase - sounds bargin bucket, factory job to me.
rude-boy said:
Yes and no,
It's a bit expensive but always remember the old phrase, Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
£800 + Vat for a sale and purchase - sounds bargin bucket, factory job to me.
Fair enough, you are of course entitled to your views, but we are as busy as ever even though there has been a supposed down turn in the market. We are a sole practitioner firm in the country and probably charge average for around here.
Interestingly we go on recommendation alone, a fact that says we must be doing something right.
CHaps,
Thanks all for the replies. Mr rude boy - thanks for the PM. I have responded in kind.
It sounds like a lot of cash, but then I didn't know what to expect. Super-pricey house/complex situation? The flat is being sold for a bit under £200K, the replacement will probably be between £350 and £400K. Is this super-expensive? Compared with the rest of the PH massif, I would doubt it. Not particularly complex - flat owned by us, house will be owned by us. Nothing out of the ordinary, I don't think.
I do know that the solicitors who I have spoken to thus far (run by my sisters'-husbands'-father) has a scale of fixed charges, and we are in the half-a-million bracket (which is more than we are looking at spending, which may explain part of it.)
The idea of spending less appeals, for obvious reasons, but Mrs zcacogp and I are all pretty wet-behind-the-ears about this sort of thing, and therefore I would be careful about choosing some service which would leave us high and dry.
Oli.
Thanks all for the replies. Mr rude boy - thanks for the PM. I have responded in kind.
It sounds like a lot of cash, but then I didn't know what to expect. Super-pricey house/complex situation? The flat is being sold for a bit under £200K, the replacement will probably be between £350 and £400K. Is this super-expensive? Compared with the rest of the PH massif, I would doubt it. Not particularly complex - flat owned by us, house will be owned by us. Nothing out of the ordinary, I don't think.
I do know that the solicitors who I have spoken to thus far (run by my sisters'-husbands'-father) has a scale of fixed charges, and we are in the half-a-million bracket (which is more than we are looking at spending, which may explain part of it.)
The idea of spending less appeals, for obvious reasons, but Mrs zcacogp and I are all pretty wet-behind-the-ears about this sort of thing, and therefore I would be careful about choosing some service which would leave us high and dry.
Oli.
zcacogp said:
For instance, we have been quoted £1450+vat for the entire process. This excludes postage and faxing (sounds odd) at £30+vat. It also (obviously) excludes the cost of searches, land registry bits, stamp duty, estate agents fees and so on.
We paid about that for everything (including all the extras you mentioned).
The stamp duty thing is the only real major variable. Our purchase was for a £140k property.
(we only bought though, not sold)
>> Edited by b17nns on Wednesday 2nd February 16:20
I think allowing a budget of £500 for a sale, and £500 for a purchase, each plus VAT is a reasonable starter point.
Leasehold properties do tend to take up more time, and so you would expect them to charge a little more. I think £1450 is a little steep and suggest you shop around for a better deal before committing yourself.
Leasehold properties do tend to take up more time, and so you would expect them to charge a little more. I think £1450 is a little steep and suggest you shop around for a better deal before committing yourself.
Might be about right for Glocs. if that's where you're based.
I get most of my work through recommendation too.
At the end of the day it depends on the service you want and, I the case of your Firm, overheads.
Usually spend at least an hour face to face with clients during transaction or on the 'phone plus another hour going through docs.
With a leasehold you have to think about the fact that you have to investigate both freehold and leashold title, 40 page lease or so to read, even on a sale, prepare contact, check SPIF, check SLPIF, check Fix Fits, respond to additional enquires, deal with enquires of managing agents, calculate apportionments, deal with lender, approve TR1, and obviously oversee completion and post completion issues, such as getting the release from your undertaking to redeem the mortgage.
WIth a freehold purchase you have the contract to approve, title to investigate, mortgage to check,fix fits form to check, SPIF to check, additional enquires to raise, lender to deal with, TR1 to draft, SDLT form to prepare, completion statements, searches to submit and interpret the responses to, report to clients, completion formalities, registration, etc.
Thats a short, off the top of my head list, there are a number of things I might have missed out, not least of which is agreeing a completion date and dealing with the agents chasing their 1 1/2 - 2% commission
The more you pay the more time someone can spend on your matter. A good guide is to look at the solicitor's hourly rate. You should also remember that when you are talking about £200k+ £1000 - £1500 is very little to pay to ensure all is well and to get good service.
Question:- What would you rather, a 3 year old Kia Pride or brand new Audi A3?
I get most of my work through recommendation too.
At the end of the day it depends on the service you want and, I the case of your Firm, overheads.
Usually spend at least an hour face to face with clients during transaction or on the 'phone plus another hour going through docs.
With a leasehold you have to think about the fact that you have to investigate both freehold and leashold title, 40 page lease or so to read, even on a sale, prepare contact, check SPIF, check SLPIF, check Fix Fits, respond to additional enquires, deal with enquires of managing agents, calculate apportionments, deal with lender, approve TR1, and obviously oversee completion and post completion issues, such as getting the release from your undertaking to redeem the mortgage.
WIth a freehold purchase you have the contract to approve, title to investigate, mortgage to check,fix fits form to check, SPIF to check, additional enquires to raise, lender to deal with, TR1 to draft, SDLT form to prepare, completion statements, searches to submit and interpret the responses to, report to clients, completion formalities, registration, etc.
Thats a short, off the top of my head list, there are a number of things I might have missed out, not least of which is agreeing a completion date and dealing with the agents chasing their 1 1/2 - 2% commission
The more you pay the more time someone can spend on your matter. A good guide is to look at the solicitor's hourly rate. You should also remember that when you are talking about £200k+ £1000 - £1500 is very little to pay to ensure all is well and to get good service.
Question:- What would you rather, a 3 year old Kia Pride or brand new Audi A3?
solicitors prices are all dependent on the price of the property involved. If I can give any advice, it would be make sure your solicitors do a no sale, no fee deal, and also make sure they'll do it for a fixed fee. so much more beneficial to the average punter, knowing that whether it takes 3 weeks or 30 weeks it's still the same price. same goes for not having to pay legal bills if the sale falls though 
I grovel and eat humble pie, i have since re-read your original post and it's for the entire process 
in which case i think you're original quote is about right. I (and i'm not quite sure why) thought it was for the selling bit only
(i should know working for lawyers, always read it twice, think, then engage brain
)
I'd be surprised if any solicitors do it on a no sale no fee basis, there is a lot of work that goes in before hand. You might realistically be able to negotiate some money off but there is a lot that can go wrong that has nothing to do with the solicitor, especially on the day before or on the exchange of contract day at which point nearly all of the work has been done.
in which case i think you're original quote is about right. I (and i'm not quite sure why) thought it was for the selling bit only
(i should know working for lawyers, always read it twice, think, then engage brain
) I'd be surprised if any solicitors do it on a no sale no fee basis, there is a lot of work that goes in before hand. You might realistically be able to negotiate some money off but there is a lot that can go wrong that has nothing to do with the solicitor, especially on the day before or on the exchange of contract day at which point nearly all of the work has been done.
rugbyfiend said:
I'd be surprised if any solicitors do it on a no sale no fee basis
my estate agency team use our in house firm (myhomemove and a local firm (sharp & partners) who do no sale, no fee and fixed fee as standard practice. this policy is followed throughout out 270 branches in england who offer vendors/purchasers a choice of the in house sols or the selected local sols
I believe (not certain though ) that this is standard practice among estate agencies, it certainly is in the east midlands Mr Rugbyfiend, Don't worry! Thanks for the post!
First of all, big public thanks to Rude Boy. He has just offered a good 20 mins of advice for nothing (well, I have yet to receive the invoice!) Very helpful it was too - thanks John.
It sounds like the quote I have is on the high side, but perhaps not as ridiculous as it may be. Rude Boy has given me an idea of other price scales, and this was helpful. I can see that the advice is to avoid conveyancing outfits like the plague, and pay the extra for a bone-fide solicitors. It may cost a little more up front, but the potential for avoiding chaos could be very valuable.
I think I may just pull very gently on the family connection and see if the chaps I know could knock a bit off. If they can, I may well be onto a good thing. If not ... well ... better the devil you know and all that.
Very many thanks again to everyone who has contributed on here. All advice was welcome, once again the PH collective has shown it's colours.
Oli.
First of all, big public thanks to Rude Boy. He has just offered a good 20 mins of advice for nothing (well, I have yet to receive the invoice!) Very helpful it was too - thanks John.
It sounds like the quote I have is on the high side, but perhaps not as ridiculous as it may be. Rude Boy has given me an idea of other price scales, and this was helpful. I can see that the advice is to avoid conveyancing outfits like the plague, and pay the extra for a bone-fide solicitors. It may cost a little more up front, but the potential for avoiding chaos could be very valuable.
I think I may just pull very gently on the family connection and see if the chaps I know could knock a bit off. If they can, I may well be onto a good thing. If not ... well ... better the devil you know and all that.
Very many thanks again to everyone who has contributed on here. All advice was welcome, once again the PH collective has shown it's colours.
Oli.
zcacogp said:
First of all, big public thanks to Rude Boy. He has just offered a good 20 mins of advice for nothing (well, I have yet to receive the invoice!) Very helpful it was too - thanks John.
this is part of what makes PH great!
zcacogp said:
I can see that the advice is to avoid conveyancing outfits like the plague, and pay the extra for a bone-fide solicitors. It may cost a little more up front, but the potential for avoiding chaos could be very valuable.
I feel I must disagree with this. IME a conveyancer from a big reputable firm working on a no sale no fee basis and a fixed fee basis is much better for peace of mind...also, the conveyancers assign a conveyancer to your case who deals with it all the way through whereas a solicitor might have a divorce case plus a criminal case plus umptynine other things a solicitor can be involved in that also need to be dealt with in his day.
Use these people - they are absolutely excelent and have handled two of my property sales/purchases:
www.shoosmithssolicitors.co.uk/
You can always speak to them, and if the sale falls through for any reason you are charged nothing at all.
Hope that helps.
www.shoosmithssolicitors.co.uk/
You can always speak to them, and if the sale falls through for any reason you are charged nothing at all.
Hope that helps.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
fair enough!
I also have experience of them...
I suppose i'm looking at this the wrong way - if I was in zcacogp's position then I would use a conveyancing firm or the local ones I know that do the no slae no fee and a fixed fee. In fairness, I think this is the most important consideration after quality and it would not matter to me whether they were conveyancers or sols also, I am forgetting that if it were myself, or if they were my customers then I would be able to apply considerable leverage on them to get it through/sort out delays/speak to an actual person etc etc etc - of course, the average person does not have this luxury
fair play to all
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