Discussion
From the North Korea, Winter, Ellen and Camilla threads among others it seems that some Pistonheads have a healthy disregard for the press.
Here in the UK we get spoonfed the Murdoch anti-european, republican agenda or the lentlist, politically correct spoutings of the metropolitan elite. The problem is that most people believe this stuff, it's on the TV/in the papers so it must be right. This does immense harm to the country, the current Chav epidemic being an example. My pet hate was when the Mail and Sun had their "Murder By Playstation" front pages when their stories bore no resemblance to the facts.
It seems to me that the press have immense power and no responsability. They are in millions of people's heads yet the only control are the press complaints people and libel laws. Well the press complaints people are the press themselves so obviously have zero effectiveness and the libel laws are such that you have to be immensely rich to use them. Obviously we need freedom of the press but in the UK that freedom is just totally abused. What can be done about this?
Here in the UK we get spoonfed the Murdoch anti-european, republican agenda or the lentlist, politically correct spoutings of the metropolitan elite. The problem is that most people believe this stuff, it's on the TV/in the papers so it must be right. This does immense harm to the country, the current Chav epidemic being an example. My pet hate was when the Mail and Sun had their "Murder By Playstation" front pages when their stories bore no resemblance to the facts.
It seems to me that the press have immense power and no responsability. They are in millions of people's heads yet the only control are the press complaints people and libel laws. Well the press complaints people are the press themselves so obviously have zero effectiveness and the libel laws are such that you have to be immensely rich to use them. Obviously we need freedom of the press but in the UK that freedom is just totally abused. What can be done about this?
bruciebabie said:
From the North Korea, Winter, Ellen and Camilla threads among others it seems that some Pistonheads have a healthy disregard for the press.
Here in the UK we get spoonfed the Murdoch anti-european, republican agenda or the lentlist, politically correct spoutings of the metropolitan elite. The problem is that most people believe this stuff, it's on the TV/in the papers so it must be right. This does immense harm to the country, the current Chav epidemic being an example. My pet hate was when the Mail and Sun had their "Murder By Playstation" front pages when their stories bore no resemblance to the facts.
It seems to me that the press have immense power and no responsability. They are in millions of people's heads yet the only control are the press complaints people and libel laws. Well the press complaints people are the press themselves so obviously have zero effectiveness and the libel laws are such that you have to be immensely rich to use them. Obviously we need freedom of the press but in the UK that freedom is just totally abused. What can be done about this?
Read and watch a wide variety of news sources and make your own balanced view.
>> Edited by alexkp on Friday 11th February 13:48
The impressionable public and the press wind each other up. The ignorant public needs education, and they believe they can get it from the press, so they do what the press say. So the press sell more copies and spout more of what the ignorant public think they want. It's a vicious circle.
Just encourage everyone to read Private Eye and the Spectator. That'll sort it out
Just encourage everyone to read Private Eye and the Spectator. That'll sort it out
brucie,
as someone who works in the press I have to point out one thing- the press complaints commission are not members of the press. generally, they are people who used to work in the press (so obviously have connections with current journalists/editors and makes it difficult to say they are impartial) but from my point of view they can be quite harsh in their judgements at times - but strangely not in stories that really matter.
It is possible that by spouting off, claiming things are true when it can be proved they are not an editor can be removed from his position - see Piers Morgan.
I think the real problems start in universities and colleges across the country. When I was at uni (fairly recently) I was about as cynical as it is possible to be (still am) . Yet a number of the more impressionable students believed, and took as verbatim, every word uttered by our range of leftist lecturers.
then, when it comes to essay/exam time, these same lecturers mark work. the essays which reflect the lecturers' point of view get the good mark. the people with the good marks get the jobs and then inflict their opinions onto the public.
I aim to stop the rot!
as someone who works in the press I have to point out one thing- the press complaints commission are not members of the press. generally, they are people who used to work in the press (so obviously have connections with current journalists/editors and makes it difficult to say they are impartial) but from my point of view they can be quite harsh in their judgements at times - but strangely not in stories that really matter.
It is possible that by spouting off, claiming things are true when it can be proved they are not an editor can be removed from his position - see Piers Morgan.
I think the real problems start in universities and colleges across the country. When I was at uni (fairly recently) I was about as cynical as it is possible to be (still am) . Yet a number of the more impressionable students believed, and took as verbatim, every word uttered by our range of leftist lecturers.
then, when it comes to essay/exam time, these same lecturers mark work. the essays which reflect the lecturers' point of view get the good mark. the people with the good marks get the jobs and then inflict their opinions onto the public.
I aim to stop the rot!
Dr HiRich concurs with Dr Jacobyte. Take one Private Eye every second Wednesday. Read carefully. Your condition of gullibility is chronic, but the Eye will assist in releiving the symptoms.
Seriously, not everything in the Eye is necessarily accurate or true (they sometimes get suckered by people seeding dodgy stories in their own private vendettas), but they have an excellent record in explaining what really happened:
- What Hutton ignored
- Why Blunkett really had to go (as should others)
- What was the Mail On Sunday's role on Chris Smith's recent announcement about his HIV?
Seriously, not everything in the Eye is necessarily accurate or true (they sometimes get suckered by people seeding dodgy stories in their own private vendettas), but they have an excellent record in explaining what really happened:
- What Hutton ignored
- Why Blunkett really had to go (as should others)
- What was the Mail On Sunday's role on Chris Smith's recent announcement about his HIV?
The press has suffered from centralisation. Years ago every county, town and village had local papers, periodicals etc and so there were hundreds of independent editorial viewpoints available. Now we have a handful politically motivated businessmen determining public opinion!
With any press report, look at their sources not what they say and if you can hack through the biased editorial you can usually find a grain of accurate reporting! The situaltion isn't helped by the insatiable appetite of the British public for trivia!
With any press report, look at their sources not what they say and if you can hack through the biased editorial you can usually find a grain of accurate reporting! The situaltion isn't helped by the insatiable appetite of the British public for trivia!
Gazboy said:
btw the Editors aren't the powerful decision makers who decide what runs, what doesn't, and what that papers stance is, sorry to dissapoint.
For those who hate the Gaurdian- I'm going to put money on it folding by Christmas 2006.
The Guardian is owned by a trust and is there in perpetuity unfortunately. It is actually quite a succesful business and owns lots of other stuff other than the "Sandalist" itself. It was set up after some ignorant drunken public school tossers calvalry charged some innocent millworkers (mostly young women) who dared to march on a Sunday, very brave of them eh
? As a consequence the newspaper was set up to make sure such things never happened again. In recent years since soft southern shandy drinkers have been involved it has bowed down to sandalistlentilist dogma and as such is going through a rocky time although you will see the occasional PHer in print slagging George Mombiot et al off for their continued inane witterings, so at least they offer an opposing view occasionally. Hopefully it will come out the other end but even if it only sells 1 copy it will remain in print.bruciebabie said:
....a bloody good point
As someone who has more than his fair share of disregard for the UK press, I share and support your opinions. I am sick to the back teeth of attention seeking journalists who invent, fabricate or entrap people to "create" a story...
Where have our investigative reporters gone?
What happened to the truth?
Why do we need to know when every "celebrity" does a dump?
Well, the standard answer from the media is "well its popular". Usually because there is little other choice. I am a strong believer that a middle of the road (mixed and balanced rather than politically) daily paper would sell well. Based on the news rather than headline grabing sensationalism..... but then again I am not a publisher so what do I know.
What can we do? Well I started. I voted with my money. I cancelled my Sky subscription (suprisingly liberating experience by the way). I rarely watch the TV and invested in a fancy Sony Viao for the family to use / abuse / play music / games as a replacement for the TV (worked too!!!!). I NEVER by a paper and steer well clear of any political spin from anyone.... Unfortunately I am in the minority as the Murdoch empire is still growing. Shame really.
As an aside, its the blatant fabrication that gets me. I was listening to Radio 1 (I know, but there was nothing else on!). Went to the news and it was going on about Michael Howard "demanding" a public apology from Prince whats-his-face for the Nazi thing. They laboured and laboured the point in the extreme making the key headline going on about how he and the conservative party were demanding a public apology. When they eventually played the interview, he was explicit in saying that it was his personal opinion (from his families history) and that since it was a rather silly thing to do, it was probably a good idea to silence his critics and make some form of public apology...... not even close to the "demand" that was reported..... Why lie? Why fabricate? Why exaggerate? The chap made a personal comment and was still mis-interpreted..... what can you do?
Dont get me wrong, the media and journalists play a role in society. But at the moment, the slimy, underhand scum suckers can be first against the wall when the revolution comes......
P.S. Need I mention the PH / Mary Williams incident? Morals? Nah, they dont have any....
Gazboy said:
Gazboy said:
btw the Editors aren't the powerful decision makers who decide what runs, what doesn't, and what that papers stance is, sorry to dissapoint.
For those who hate the Gaurdian- I'm going to put money on it folding by Christmas 2006.
The Guardian is owned by a trust and is there in perpetuity unfortunately. It is actually quite a succesful business and owns lots of other stuff other than the "Sandalist" itself. It was set up after some ignorant drunken public school tossers calvalry charged some innocent millworkers (mostly young women) who dared to march on a Sunday, very brave of them eh
I think a grave miscalculation has occured regarding this new Berliner size- it isn't just a case of cutting it different EVERYTHING has to be changed. They say they've spent 'only' £55m on 3 new Berliner presses, which isn't quite the truth, they've bought two presses (and we still can't fathom how they got two presses that cheap), Trinity Mirror has paid for the third, what they didn't mention was the 100's of millions that has to be spent on 1 new purpose built factory, 2 CPT platemaking lines, 2 new TTR lines to ferry the copy to a bespoke inserting stations, another 2 TTR lines to take the copy to a bespoke publishing and packaging dept, plus a shedload of spares. Nothing but a Berliner paper can go on a Berliner press, so when the Guardian hatched this plan, they assunmed that they could get some local rags to go BL size to recoupe some of the money (at £30,000 per hour, per press, that's a lot of money), unfortunately for the Guardian, the locals changed their mind and want to stay their respective sizes.
Should a horrific accident happen on these three presses (mech not personal) there are no other BL presses in the country mothballed somewhere to nick parts off, or temporily cannibalised while you wait for a spare part to be delivered from Germany, neither could you 'farm out' the BL paper to another plant. They will lose money hand over fist on this unless they can sell, say 4 million papers a day, and I can't see that happening.
Wont matter they can afford it I would be very surprised if they sink. I believe the trusts assets are protected in someway anyway so it may be financial institutions that lose out.
After all they are the neares thing we have to communist anywayGot to agree Gazyboy, the Inde reports facts and has some excellent editorials, i buy it everyday more or less. What i meant by local news/periodicals is small circulation independently published papers. Most of the local papers are part of a larger publishing/media houses and many of the regional papers are now national papers (the daily mail for example). The days of writing a selling low volume local periodicals is long gone.
bruciebabie said:
The problem is that most people believe this stuff, it's on the TV/in the papers so it must be right. This does immense harm to the country, the current Chav epidemic being an example.
Agree with that. But Chavs are a by-product of the socialist dream - a lazy, non-competitive society packed full of 'rights', and redistribution of wealth from those who've earned it and value it to people who haven't and don't.
What worries me about: "The media" in general is, on the one hand the Global ownership of radio, television and newspapers, thereby allowing some magnate Murdoch for one to influence, and indeed dictate to Governments the world over. They are the opinion makers and that is their threat, because most people need to be told what to think (brainwashing is very subtle).
The second, is once hold of this power, they then distribute the req'd message to the requesite Country. They CAN, change Governments.
Below this is a level which "Regional news" takes a part. Divide and rule? Do we know what's happening in the rest of the UK do you think? I listened in on an event of national interest for two months once on the 2 metre Ham band, only 90 miles from here! Someone must have slapped a "D" notice on it, i.e. (Government enforced - NO reporting) for it was NOT reported anywhere. Only when it was over, a very cursory 15 sec two sentance report was broadcast. Free press? Right!
What ever your Political view, and I uphold your right to have it, in a so called free, democratic country, do we not have the right to hear the truth and make your own mind up?
>> Edited by 8Pack on Saturday 12th February 05:59
The second, is once hold of this power, they then distribute the req'd message to the requesite Country. They CAN, change Governments.
Below this is a level which "Regional news" takes a part. Divide and rule? Do we know what's happening in the rest of the UK do you think? I listened in on an event of national interest for two months once on the 2 metre Ham band, only 90 miles from here! Someone must have slapped a "D" notice on it, i.e. (Government enforced - NO reporting) for it was NOT reported anywhere. Only when it was over, a very cursory 15 sec two sentance report was broadcast. Free press? Right!
What ever your Political view, and I uphold your right to have it, in a so called free, democratic country, do we not have the right to hear the truth and make your own mind up?
>> Edited by 8Pack on Saturday 12th February 05:59
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