Gas and tenancy problem. Advice needed.
Discussion
Asking this on behalf of a vulnerable person.
Situation and background.
Property is rented from a landlord. Tenant has no current tenancy agreement as it expired in 2003 and appears to have been "overlooked" for renewal. Tenant does have a rentbook and continues to pay rent.
Tenants occupancy has been approx 15 years.
Property is in poor state of repair and has a subsidence problem.
Property has 5 gas appliances.
Tenant owns the gas cooker.
Landlords appliances are:
Radiant convector gas fire fitted in back room.
Radiant convector gas fire in front room.
Natural draught room sealed convector heater on the landing/top of stairs.
Natural draught room sealed water heater in bathroom.
Recently tenant attempted to light the radiant convector gas fire fitted in the front room and found that the control knob broke into two pieces rendering operation unusable.
Tenant called me to "take a look" which is what i did.
I found the following.
Front room.
Gas fire switched on, wouldnt switch off and vice -versa.
Not fitted/secured in position so can be pulled away from the wall.
Closure plate not sealed to wall (at all) and has remains of sellotape along its top edge.
Fireplace incorrectly finished so CO% can escape from brickwork via closure plate edges.
Closure plate not fitted squarely so an exposed gap of approx a thumbs width is visible.
No spillage evident.
Back room.
Gas fire is not secured/fitted to wall.
Closure plate nailed to the wall so cleaning of catchment area impossible.
Letterbox opening is far larger than gas fire spigot.
Closure plate made from car body panel..
Air relief hole/slot (too large anyway) completely clogged with debris from class 1 flue.
Voids in builders opening/catchment area so CO% can escape into brickwork.
Fire is extremely difficult to operate.
No signs of spillage.
Water heater in bathroom has a bent outer casing but without removal i couldnt tell if its seal was intact.
Convector on stairs is isolated and has never to my knowledge been operable.
Ok, a little more background.
Landlord has virtually never done any repairs in the whole time the tenant has occupied the property.
There are NO smoke alarms fitted.
None of the gas appliances has EVER been inspected/serviced in the entire time the current tenant has occupied the property.
Obviously the landlord is in breach of GSIUR regulations regarding the gas appliances, and the smoke alarms(building regs).
Landlord threatens to "up" the rent anytime repairs are mentioned in respect of the structure.
He has been a bit of a w*nker in this regard.
To the point.
What sanctions can i get implemented against this parasite in respect of the gas regulation infringements?
Who should i contact? Hse? Corgi? Transco? All of em?
I believe that if i do this then all that will happen is that the appliances will be disconnected.
I dont wish that to happen as im sure he wont worry about it at all and maybe he will attempt to evict the tenant.
In respect of the lack of a tennancy agreement, i beleive he is taking the cash from this tenant and pocketing it without declaring it and using the lack of one to circumvent the gas regs, as Transco should have him down as a landlord for that property and would automatically remind him of the service intervals for the appliances he owns.
I also believe he is letting multiple properties in the same manner and not declaring the extra income as no tenancy agreement means no tenants. Also, how many other unsafe appliances does he own?
What if any laws is he breaking by not having a tenancy agreement with the tenant?
What rights does such a "tenant" have?
Any help on this complicated problem would be most appreciated as i wish to get the info back to the tenant before any action is decided upon.
Situation and background.
Property is rented from a landlord. Tenant has no current tenancy agreement as it expired in 2003 and appears to have been "overlooked" for renewal. Tenant does have a rentbook and continues to pay rent.
Tenants occupancy has been approx 15 years.
Property is in poor state of repair and has a subsidence problem.
Property has 5 gas appliances.
Tenant owns the gas cooker.
Landlords appliances are:
Radiant convector gas fire fitted in back room.
Radiant convector gas fire in front room.
Natural draught room sealed convector heater on the landing/top of stairs.
Natural draught room sealed water heater in bathroom.
Recently tenant attempted to light the radiant convector gas fire fitted in the front room and found that the control knob broke into two pieces rendering operation unusable.
Tenant called me to "take a look" which is what i did.
I found the following.
Front room.
Gas fire switched on, wouldnt switch off and vice -versa.
Not fitted/secured in position so can be pulled away from the wall.
Closure plate not sealed to wall (at all) and has remains of sellotape along its top edge.
Fireplace incorrectly finished so CO% can escape from brickwork via closure plate edges.
Closure plate not fitted squarely so an exposed gap of approx a thumbs width is visible.
No spillage evident.
Back room.
Gas fire is not secured/fitted to wall.
Closure plate nailed to the wall so cleaning of catchment area impossible.
Letterbox opening is far larger than gas fire spigot.
Closure plate made from car body panel..
Air relief hole/slot (too large anyway) completely clogged with debris from class 1 flue.
Voids in builders opening/catchment area so CO% can escape into brickwork.
Fire is extremely difficult to operate.
No signs of spillage.
Water heater in bathroom has a bent outer casing but without removal i couldnt tell if its seal was intact.
Convector on stairs is isolated and has never to my knowledge been operable.
Ok, a little more background.
Landlord has virtually never done any repairs in the whole time the tenant has occupied the property.
There are NO smoke alarms fitted.
None of the gas appliances has EVER been inspected/serviced in the entire time the current tenant has occupied the property.
Obviously the landlord is in breach of GSIUR regulations regarding the gas appliances, and the smoke alarms(building regs).
Landlord threatens to "up" the rent anytime repairs are mentioned in respect of the structure.
He has been a bit of a w*nker in this regard.
To the point.
What sanctions can i get implemented against this parasite in respect of the gas regulation infringements?
Who should i contact? Hse? Corgi? Transco? All of em?
I believe that if i do this then all that will happen is that the appliances will be disconnected.
I dont wish that to happen as im sure he wont worry about it at all and maybe he will attempt to evict the tenant.
In respect of the lack of a tennancy agreement, i beleive he is taking the cash from this tenant and pocketing it without declaring it and using the lack of one to circumvent the gas regs, as Transco should have him down as a landlord for that property and would automatically remind him of the service intervals for the appliances he owns.
I also believe he is letting multiple properties in the same manner and not declaring the extra income as no tenancy agreement means no tenants. Also, how many other unsafe appliances does he own?
What if any laws is he breaking by not having a tenancy agreement with the tenant?
What rights does such a "tenant" have?
Any help on this complicated problem would be most appreciated as i wish to get the info back to the tenant before any action is decided upon.
One of my mates landlords did similar albeit for 3 years. He insisted in being paid cash too.
Landlord couldn't be arsed to fix anything so they shopped him to Inland Revenue (including copies of their bank statements showing £250 each month being withdrawn on the same day etc), gas people and various other bodies. Apparently the guy got into a whole lot of s**t because of it. If the rent had been very cheap, that would have been a different matter.
Landlord couldn't be arsed to fix anything so they shopped him to Inland Revenue (including copies of their bank statements showing £250 each month being withdrawn on the same day etc), gas people and various other bodies. Apparently the guy got into a whole lot of s**t because of it. If the rent had been very cheap, that would have been a different matter.
Until a few years ago a sitting tenant with no tenancy agreement would automatically have an Assured Tenancy which, in effect, make it extremely difficult for the landlord to evict them or, indeed, regain posession of their own property.
That has now changed, and there is an implied Shorthold Assured Tenancy Agreement, which effectively allows the landlord to give notice to regain posession of the property.
The landlord has a Duty Of Care to maintain the property in a habitable state, and there are legal requirements for gas applicances. I have a feeling the landlord may be legally liable if they cannot produce a Gas Safety Certificate for each and every gas appliance in the property.
There are many options open to the tanant. Contacting the Health & Safety Dept. of your local council will achieve results. I had some tenants do this to me and it certainly galvanised me into action. Unfortunately (for my tenants) it also galvanised me into anger over the fact that they couldn't work it out with me over the phone without involving bloody bureaucrats
but that is beside the point.
In the real world, the landlord will be able to find some legitimate reason to terminate the tenancy, so I would tread softly, but having said that, I wouldn't want to live in a death-trap property with potentially life-threatening gas appliances, so I think a call to your local Health and Safety Representative at the local council would be worth a go. However, give the landlord a chance to sort it first - as in "look, I'm a reasonable person. I am in fear of my life over these appliances. Please sort them out, or I'm going to have to contact the council".
However, in the meantime, I would invest in Carbon Monoxide detectors. The expensive electronic ones aren't necessary. You can get packs of the crystalline ones for something like £4.99 for 2. Get some of those and post them next to every appliance.
That has now changed, and there is an implied Shorthold Assured Tenancy Agreement, which effectively allows the landlord to give notice to regain posession of the property.
The landlord has a Duty Of Care to maintain the property in a habitable state, and there are legal requirements for gas applicances. I have a feeling the landlord may be legally liable if they cannot produce a Gas Safety Certificate for each and every gas appliance in the property.
There are many options open to the tanant. Contacting the Health & Safety Dept. of your local council will achieve results. I had some tenants do this to me and it certainly galvanised me into action. Unfortunately (for my tenants) it also galvanised me into anger over the fact that they couldn't work it out with me over the phone without involving bloody bureaucrats
but that is beside the point. In the real world, the landlord will be able to find some legitimate reason to terminate the tenancy, so I would tread softly, but having said that, I wouldn't want to live in a death-trap property with potentially life-threatening gas appliances, so I think a call to your local Health and Safety Representative at the local council would be worth a go. However, give the landlord a chance to sort it first - as in "look, I'm a reasonable person. I am in fear of my life over these appliances. Please sort them out, or I'm going to have to contact the council".
However, in the meantime, I would invest in Carbon Monoxide detectors. The expensive electronic ones aren't necessary. You can get packs of the crystalline ones for something like £4.99 for 2. Get some of those and post them next to every appliance.
JonRB said:
However, give the landlord a chance to sort it first - as in "look, I'm a reasonable person. I am in fear of my life over these appliances. Please sort them out, or I'm going to have to contact the council".
Always worked for me as a tenant, never had to threaten council though. I'm always of the opinion that if you can sort something out amicably then you should. What goes around comes around, treat others as you would yourself etc.
Some points from your post.
There is no need for their to be a current tenancy agreement, it is common practice for an agreement to continue in the same form as it was in already and be classed as a periodic tenancy. This alone certainly doesn't mean that the landlord isn't declaring his income.
There is no requirement for the landlord to fit smoke alarms at this moment in time.
The landlord is in breach of the gas safety regs, he's supposed to ensure that the gas applicances are inspected on an annual basis. The local environmental health at the council will be happy to take an interest.
Given the length of time the tenant has been in there is is difficult to say what sort of tenancy he has and therefore what level of protection, it may well be a shorthold tenancy which makes it likely that the landlord only has to give him two months notice to evict him. It may be that he has more secuirty than this but he would need to take advice on his agreement. Incidentally CAB's are very good at this sort of advice as are Shelter.
I can't remember what else you said..
>> Edited by Piglet on Saturday 5th March 07:26
There is no need for their to be a current tenancy agreement, it is common practice for an agreement to continue in the same form as it was in already and be classed as a periodic tenancy. This alone certainly doesn't mean that the landlord isn't declaring his income.
There is no requirement for the landlord to fit smoke alarms at this moment in time.
The landlord is in breach of the gas safety regs, he's supposed to ensure that the gas applicances are inspected on an annual basis. The local environmental health at the council will be happy to take an interest.
Given the length of time the tenant has been in there is is difficult to say what sort of tenancy he has and therefore what level of protection, it may well be a shorthold tenancy which makes it likely that the landlord only has to give him two months notice to evict him. It may be that he has more secuirty than this but he would need to take advice on his agreement. Incidentally CAB's are very good at this sort of advice as are Shelter.
I can't remember what else you said..
>> Edited by Piglet on Saturday 5th March 07:26
Ok guys thanks for the replies. Is pointing me towards HSE i think.
Forgot to mention in my starting post that none of the appliances has ever been inspected during the tenants occupation so no landlords certificates have been issued, and so no maintainance has ever taken place. In breach of his responsibilites as laid down in law and the GSIUR regs.
Cheers.
Forgot to mention in my starting post that none of the appliances has ever been inspected during the tenants occupation so no landlords certificates have been issued, and so no maintainance has ever taken place. In breach of his responsibilites as laid down in law and the GSIUR regs.
Cheers.
I think it's the Environmental Health officer at your local authority rather than the HSE that you need.
Edited to say a couple of other things...
If this person is vunerable and may struggle to find alternative accomodation I would serviously suggest talking to the landlord first. If they have a shorthold tenancy they can be evicted in 2 months with no reason. If this is some form of secured tenancy, one of the reasons that the landlord can use to evict is the disrepair of the property and if the landlord can show that he doesn't have any other property to put the tenant into the tenant could end up being evicted even with an assured tenancy. You might get the satisfaction of getting the landlord screwed but your friend may find themselves out on the street.
Your friend can use "set off" whereby he witholds rent to the value of the cost of the rectification work. However, he must be VERY careful how this is done and not just stop paying the rent. He must have advised the landlord in writing of the repairs needed and given him chance to put them right (pref recorded delivery letters etc.) the landlord is only liable for disrepair once he is aware of it (gas servicing is obviously different). I wouldn't suggest that he does this without decent advice - again try the CAB.
In the words of Shnozz on a different thread, this legal malarkey is all well and good but sometimes there is no substitute for a good talking to
>> Edited by Piglet on Saturday 5th March 09:16
Edited to say a couple of other things...
If this person is vunerable and may struggle to find alternative accomodation I would serviously suggest talking to the landlord first. If they have a shorthold tenancy they can be evicted in 2 months with no reason. If this is some form of secured tenancy, one of the reasons that the landlord can use to evict is the disrepair of the property and if the landlord can show that he doesn't have any other property to put the tenant into the tenant could end up being evicted even with an assured tenancy. You might get the satisfaction of getting the landlord screwed but your friend may find themselves out on the street.
Your friend can use "set off" whereby he witholds rent to the value of the cost of the rectification work. However, he must be VERY careful how this is done and not just stop paying the rent. He must have advised the landlord in writing of the repairs needed and given him chance to put them right (pref recorded delivery letters etc.) the landlord is only liable for disrepair once he is aware of it (gas servicing is obviously different). I wouldn't suggest that he does this without decent advice - again try the CAB.
In the words of Shnozz on a different thread, this legal malarkey is all well and good but sometimes there is no substitute for a good talking to
>> Edited by Piglet on Saturday 5th March 09:16
To be quite honest this vulnerable person needs to move. Its time to go. I take it their rent is very, very, very cheap? And that this is the reason why they have not moved before? Even so..its time to move if at all possible.
Any HSE/Environmental Health stuff will create bad blood between tenant and landlord - and the rent WILL go up.
In the first instance a reasonable request to fix the problems should be made. This *may* result in action - and also a rent increase. After all - if a load of appliances need to be replaced the landlord is going to view it as cost that needs recovering (over time) and also that the property has been "improved" and therefore worth a higher rent.
So I think, unless your friend is being ripped off at the moment, that a higher rent is inevitable. If this is the case - why not pay the higher rent to a better landlord with a nicer property?
Any HSE/Environmental Health stuff will create bad blood between tenant and landlord - and the rent WILL go up.
In the first instance a reasonable request to fix the problems should be made. This *may* result in action - and also a rent increase. After all - if a load of appliances need to be replaced the landlord is going to view it as cost that needs recovering (over time) and also that the property has been "improved" and therefore worth a higher rent.
So I think, unless your friend is being ripped off at the moment, that a higher rent is inevitable. If this is the case - why not pay the higher rent to a better landlord with a nicer property?
Ah Don, the rent. The rent is NOT cheap. This guy is blatantly ripping this tenant off.
Put it like this, for the money theure paying they could get a very nice house on a mortgage, even now.
But like i said, theyre a bit vulnerable and dont know what to do for the best, hence my holding off a bit as i dont want to get them kicked out until something in the for of other accomodation is sorted out.
The landlord ISNT a Rigsby type character, at least not in the sense of the lifestyle he's built up obviously off of the backs of people like the tenant we're discussing.
His house is palacial and extravagent.
I just want to get this turd closed down for taking advantage and using threats of rent rises to defer from spending on this dilapidated shithole the tenant is in.
Put it like this, for the money theure paying they could get a very nice house on a mortgage, even now.
But like i said, theyre a bit vulnerable and dont know what to do for the best, hence my holding off a bit as i dont want to get them kicked out until something in the for of other accomodation is sorted out.
The landlord ISNT a Rigsby type character, at least not in the sense of the lifestyle he's built up obviously off of the backs of people like the tenant we're discussing.
His house is palacial and extravagent.
I just want to get this turd closed down for taking advantage and using threats of rent rises to defer from spending on this dilapidated shithole the tenant is in.
It strikes me that the landlord is charging the tenant a ton of money for a deathtrap hovel.
Whatever the tenant asks is not going to get done without a fight, and that's no way to go on. If the tenancy was assured forever the landlord would still be a disaster and any maintenance would be late, leaving the tenant cold, out of pocket or in danger.
So life is too short.... tell the tenant to leave.
I would also report the landlord to the council and inland revenue as a going away present.
Whatever the tenant asks is not going to get done without a fight, and that's no way to go on. If the tenancy was assured forever the landlord would still be a disaster and any maintenance would be late, leaving the tenant cold, out of pocket or in danger.
So life is too short.... tell the tenant to leave.
I would also report the landlord to the council and inland revenue as a going away present.
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