what would you do if it was your daughter?
Discussion
Moral/ethical dilema for you all:
A family friend's 18 year old daughter has been dumped by her boyfriend. Noting unusual in that. It turns out that the boyfriend is in fact her former teacher, who taught her for a number of years. He is 15 years older and at the time they met at school had a girlfriend. When that relationship failed, when my friend's daughter was 15, he took her into his confidence at school. She says a physical relationship didn't develop until she left school but she kept the relationship secret as she knew her parents would object. He left the school when she was 16 and from what his daughter has said the physical relationship then developed.
Looking back now my friend feels foolish for not noticing things, as his daughter achieved much poorer GCSE results than were expected ( he left during her last year at school) and she left school at 16 to do a business book keeping course which was out of character/previous interests. She was bright enough to go to University as he sister had done. It transpires that he left to start a business elsewhere in the country and had promised her that if she got qualified she could move down when she was 18 and help run his business.
They maintained contact by secret letters and phonecalls made to call boxes at pre-arranged times. At 18 she phoned him as usual to be answered by a woman and told not to call again as he was getting married to her. She said he had asked her to answer the call as he couldn't face her.
She is and was mature for her age both physically and emotionally but I am unsure about what advice to give my friend: beat him to a pulp, tell his wife all the detail (which he may have already done) seek legal remedy for the damage to his daughter's prospects or move on?
What do you think?
A family friend's 18 year old daughter has been dumped by her boyfriend. Noting unusual in that. It turns out that the boyfriend is in fact her former teacher, who taught her for a number of years. He is 15 years older and at the time they met at school had a girlfriend. When that relationship failed, when my friend's daughter was 15, he took her into his confidence at school. She says a physical relationship didn't develop until she left school but she kept the relationship secret as she knew her parents would object. He left the school when she was 16 and from what his daughter has said the physical relationship then developed.
Looking back now my friend feels foolish for not noticing things, as his daughter achieved much poorer GCSE results than were expected ( he left during her last year at school) and she left school at 16 to do a business book keeping course which was out of character/previous interests. She was bright enough to go to University as he sister had done. It transpires that he left to start a business elsewhere in the country and had promised her that if she got qualified she could move down when she was 18 and help run his business.
They maintained contact by secret letters and phonecalls made to call boxes at pre-arranged times. At 18 she phoned him as usual to be answered by a woman and told not to call again as he was getting married to her. She said he had asked her to answer the call as he couldn't face her.
She is and was mature for her age both physically and emotionally but I am unsure about what advice to give my friend: beat him to a pulp, tell his wife all the detail (which he may have already done) seek legal remedy for the damage to his daughter's prospects or move on?
What do you think?
You can't prove they had sex when she was 15, only she knows that and it's up to her to make a complaint.
Apart from that it's a lesson on life for her.
By the way, where were her parents through all this? Did they not notice warning signs like poor mock exam results? I can't believe she suddenly 'failed' in the last 6 months especially as I believe the GCSE takes 2 years of ongoing work to get a result.
It's tough but she's an adult and legally allowed to have sex at 16, therefore if she has a relationship a court would fairly view it as that.
Also you suggested they had ongoing secret contact by letter and phone boxe. Is she a bit dim? Surley she must have relaised that if she couldn't phone him at home at anytime that he had an ongoing double life?
Maybe she hasn't spilled the entire beans on what was really going on.
M
>> Edited by skid on Saturday 5th March 12:30
Apart from that it's a lesson on life for her.
By the way, where were her parents through all this? Did they not notice warning signs like poor mock exam results? I can't believe she suddenly 'failed' in the last 6 months especially as I believe the GCSE takes 2 years of ongoing work to get a result.
It's tough but she's an adult and legally allowed to have sex at 16, therefore if she has a relationship a court would fairly view it as that.
Also you suggested they had ongoing secret contact by letter and phone boxe. Is she a bit dim? Surley she must have relaised that if she couldn't phone him at home at anytime that he had an ongoing double life?
Maybe she hasn't spilled the entire beans on what was really going on.
M
>> Edited by skid on Saturday 5th March 12:30
skid said:
Apart from that it's a lesson on life for her.
Hi Skid, I wondered where you were! On topic - unfortunately this is the kind of thing that teenaged girls do, they get a boyfriend and slack on their studies and then regret it later in life. I can't see how they can claim anything from the bloke, she made her own choices in life and her parents let her do it (I know that "let" and teenagers don't neccesarily go in the same sentence!). It's a harsh lesson but life is not always fair. I'm sure the parents feel a lot of regret and perhaps guilt but I can't see that going after the bloke achieves much - at least he left the school - presumably when he realised there was a problem.
Here we go again. This bloke is a loser. Fancy taking a 15-year old girl into your confidence 
Didn't he have any friends of his own age he could turn to, instead of burdening a youngster (even if she did have a crush on him)?
We (legally) represent teachers in my line of work and every so often a case like this comes up (we have one at the moment involving a 17-year old girl and the teacher in question faces losing his job).
I despair at the fact that some men are so interested (sexually) in very young (underage) girls. However, this man appears to have got away with it and moved on, but if she had been my daughter, my partner and I would have taught him a lesson he wouldn't have forgotten in a hurry!
As parents, all we can do is be supportive for when our children make mistakes (and they will, frequently) and try to recognise the signs that something is up before it's too late.
>> Edited by cosmoschick on Saturday 5th March 13:19
Didn't he have any friends of his own age he could turn to, instead of burdening a youngster (even if she did have a crush on him)? We (legally) represent teachers in my line of work and every so often a case like this comes up (we have one at the moment involving a 17-year old girl and the teacher in question faces losing his job).
I despair at the fact that some men are so interested (sexually) in very young (underage) girls. However, this man appears to have got away with it and moved on, but if she had been my daughter, my partner and I would have taught him a lesson he wouldn't have forgotten in a hurry!
As parents, all we can do is be supportive for when our children make mistakes (and they will, frequently) and try to recognise the signs that something is up before it's too late.
>> Edited by cosmoschick on Saturday 5th March 13:19
So, the little girl didn't measure up to expectations, instead of looking for a scapegoat and compensation, why don't "they" just accept her for who she is, warts and all? We can't all go to Oxford.
This situation is a lot more common than you think and colleagues have a habit of keeping quiet. Personally, I view them as weak minded and not fully mature themselves. I agree it is irresponsible an an abuse of power in his count BUT the punishment associated does not take into account the mental state of the chap, hence people keeping quiet. I have first hand experience of teachers clanliness and ignoring certain important issues regarding their colleagues.
Having said, some of the dirty little sluts are just aching to be
ed, abuse of power or not 
This situation is a lot more common than you think and colleagues have a habit of keeping quiet. Personally, I view them as weak minded and not fully mature themselves. I agree it is irresponsible an an abuse of power in his count BUT the punishment associated does not take into account the mental state of the chap, hence people keeping quiet. I have first hand experience of teachers clanliness and ignoring certain important issues regarding their colleagues.
Having said, some of the dirty little sluts are just aching to be
ed, abuse of power or not shirepro said:
She is and was mature for her age both physically and emotionally but I am unsure about what advice to give my friend: beat him to a pulp, tell his wife all the detail (which he may have already done) seek legal remedy for the damage to his daughter's prospects or move on?
What do you think?
Can i suggest that they do nothing. There's not a lot that can be done that won't cause more agravation than good.
The question was, what would you do if it was your daughter? I think it is easier to say what should happen rather than what YOU would do in the circumstances.
The parents obviously see it as a breach of trust, and him stringing it out for 2 years hasn't helped. I tried to think of the 16 year old daughters of other friends and have tried to think what they would have done if they had found out that their daughter had been 'seeing' a teacher at school and that a relationship that was started at school (albeit without playing hide the sausage) impacted her GCSEs (he announced he was leaving after the mocks)and career choice.
A similar thing happened at my daughters school , the teacher moved on quickly to the private sector, but I saw a very bright young lady have to move schools (it was all over the press), lose some of her friends (the teacher was popular and she got blamed) and struggle academically for several years.
If it was your daughter, what would you do?
The parents obviously see it as a breach of trust, and him stringing it out for 2 years hasn't helped. I tried to think of the 16 year old daughters of other friends and have tried to think what they would have done if they had found out that their daughter had been 'seeing' a teacher at school and that a relationship that was started at school (albeit without playing hide the sausage) impacted her GCSEs (he announced he was leaving after the mocks)and career choice.
A similar thing happened at my daughters school , the teacher moved on quickly to the private sector, but I saw a very bright young lady have to move schools (it was all over the press), lose some of her friends (the teacher was popular and she got blamed) and struggle academically for several years.
If it was your daughter, what would you do?
Has anyone spoken to the girl in question to find out what she wants? It could be very traumatic for her if the parents continue to drag it out, if all she wants to do is move on. However, if she feels she needs to protect others and that his behaviour was threatening in any way, perhaps she would like to take it further.
Keep a sense of proportion LM...
Anyway, back on topic - I actually wouldn't recommend any further action towards the teacher. OK, so he seduced a 15-year-old girl, but so does Jude Law, without meeting them, point is, she said they didn't have underage sex and it can't be proved otherwise unless she wants to. If it comes out that they did have sex when she was 15 then yes, he needs reporting, mainly because he might just do it again. Even so, it sounds like this guy's new wife knows about the relationship so he's possibly facing hell for it wherever he is anyway.
What does need discussing is this girl's future. Her grades may have taken a dive and she may have gone on to do a course uncharacteristic of her, but at least she did a course. I suggest she decides what she wants to do, books the relevant course for the right qualification, and gets her life back on track. It'll take longer for her to 'get it right', but it will teach her an important lesson - not all relationships are worth it, so be cautious.
Anyway, back on topic - I actually wouldn't recommend any further action towards the teacher. OK, so he seduced a 15-year-old girl, but so does Jude Law, without meeting them, point is, she said they didn't have underage sex and it can't be proved otherwise unless she wants to. If it comes out that they did have sex when she was 15 then yes, he needs reporting, mainly because he might just do it again. Even so, it sounds like this guy's new wife knows about the relationship so he's possibly facing hell for it wherever he is anyway.
What does need discussing is this girl's future. Her grades may have taken a dive and she may have gone on to do a course uncharacteristic of her, but at least she did a course. I suggest she decides what she wants to do, books the relevant course for the right qualification, and gets her life back on track. It'll take longer for her to 'get it right', but it will teach her an important lesson - not all relationships are worth it, so be cautious.
I can't help but feel there is more to this story. I don't understand why the parents are so concerned now about the daughter. Surely they must have had some suspicions that something was going on in the past?
My thoughts would be to report the teacher, agreed he can't be prosecuted, but this type of behaviour can be habitual and he may well have some previous history. As far as the daughter is concerned, I guess it is just a hard lesson in life.
I am sympathetic, I'm a Dad of two (much younger) girls.
pp
My thoughts would be to report the teacher, agreed he can't be prosecuted, but this type of behaviour can be habitual and he may well have some previous history. As far as the daughter is concerned, I guess it is just a hard lesson in life.
I am sympathetic, I'm a Dad of two (much younger) girls.
pp
Statistically, girls peak at an earlier age than boys and a lot of them fall off the wagon (so to speak). Most (nearly all) of the higher achievers in my year were girls and most of them didn't do A' Levels or progress particulary far. It irritates me when people try and rationalise their failures and seek compensation.
I agree with V8, if the guy is encouraging emotional contact that is unprofessional but if he is getting physical, that is illegal and punishable and there is no excuse for it. If there is unswerving proof that he did "shag" her, he should be run through the mill.
We're all humans after all and are fallible. My teaching experience has led me to believe that there are more weak minded/willed adults than in other professions but there seems to be a fair old level of colleague support. My chums niece was being "rooted" by a member of staff at her school (she is 6th form) and my ex-girlfriend had a colleague who was having an inappropriate relationship with a student. For an illegal and immoral relationship, it seems that plenty of teachers are willing to preach outrage AND ignore circumstances as they please. As a lot of my chums are teachers, I can honestly say these events are common.
I don't know how they are stupid enough to consider such actions, since the consequences are life wrecking.
I agree with V8, if the guy is encouraging emotional contact that is unprofessional but if he is getting physical, that is illegal and punishable and there is no excuse for it. If there is unswerving proof that he did "shag" her, he should be run through the mill.
We're all humans after all and are fallible. My teaching experience has led me to believe that there are more weak minded/willed adults than in other professions but there seems to be a fair old level of colleague support. My chums niece was being "rooted" by a member of staff at her school (she is 6th form) and my ex-girlfriend had a colleague who was having an inappropriate relationship with a student. For an illegal and immoral relationship, it seems that plenty of teachers are willing to preach outrage AND ignore circumstances as they please. As a lot of my chums are teachers, I can honestly say these events are common.
I don't know how they are stupid enough to consider such actions, since the consequences are life wrecking.
My Daughter is in the process of taking her abuser to court.
It has taken two years to get a trial date and lots of wrangling with the CPS.
Having given evidence in court myself, I know what lies ahead for her, and if it were my choice I wouldn't want her to do it, however it's not my choice, all I can do is support my Daughter and advise her where I can.
My Daughter is of the view that she must do this so he doesn't continue to abuse other children.
So I would say that the decision lies in the hands of your friends Daughter, and she knows the whole sequence of events, maybe she is best served by chalking it up to experience, what ever she does, I have no doubt that she needs support and understanding.
It has taken two years to get a trial date and lots of wrangling with the CPS.
Having given evidence in court myself, I know what lies ahead for her, and if it were my choice I wouldn't want her to do it, however it's not my choice, all I can do is support my Daughter and advise her where I can.
My Daughter is of the view that she must do this so he doesn't continue to abuse other children.
So I would say that the decision lies in the hands of your friends Daughter, and she knows the whole sequence of events, maybe she is best served by chalking it up to experience, what ever she does, I have no doubt that she needs support and understanding.
I've given evidence in court too, and it was a very difficult experience. Although it was 'only' county court, it was very very difficult facing my accuser across a table. Still, I won. 
You have a very brave daughter, Wedge Girl - be proud! I'm not sure I can give her any advice you haven't already, but if I can help, let me know.
You have a very brave daughter, Wedge Girl - be proud! I'm not sure I can give her any advice you haven't already, but if I can help, let me know.
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff