maybe if software wasn't so expensive...
Discussion
people would be able to afford to pay for the 'real thing'...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4336401.stm
how much was Bill, Paul, larry and the other 'digital moguls' worth t the last count?...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4336401.stm
how much was Bill, Paul, larry and the other 'digital moguls' worth t the last count?...
I agree that a lot of software is expensive, but coming from the other side of this, I invested my own money to start up a software company along with several of my colleagues. We lose hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to people stealing our software instead of buying it, and like most other companies in the software industry are finding the going increasingly difficult since "dot com bubble" has well and truly burst.
Why should I pay out of my pocket because people are too cheap to buy our product? Look at it this way - assuming you can't afford a Pagani Zonda - is it ok to go out and steal one? How about a 50" widescreen plasma TV. Nice to have, can't be bothered to pay, would you steal one from a shop? Or a house?
Not all software companies are Microsoft or Apple sized multi billion dollar giants run by people who are rich as creosote. Some of us are hardworking honest individuals just trying to make a living, and theft is theft however you dress it up as a "victimless crime"
Sorry if it seems I'm sermonising - I'm not actually against it as much as this posting would appear, but I'm just trying to show there is another side to this! Now where's that violin smiley...
Why should I pay out of my pocket because people are too cheap to buy our product? Look at it this way - assuming you can't afford a Pagani Zonda - is it ok to go out and steal one? How about a 50" widescreen plasma TV. Nice to have, can't be bothered to pay, would you steal one from a shop? Or a house?
Not all software companies are Microsoft or Apple sized multi billion dollar giants run by people who are rich as creosote. Some of us are hardworking honest individuals just trying to make a living, and theft is theft however you dress it up as a "victimless crime"
Sorry if it seems I'm sermonising - I'm not actually against it as much as this posting would appear, but I'm just trying to show there is another side to this! Now where's that violin smiley...
Not sure what the right answer to that is!
How about, any software that might make money. The bottom line is that I've written allsorts. I am in the process of providing a framework - distributed application - that allows me to write licenceable modules, that can be freely distributed.
The basic idea is that if you had an application like excel, you'd only buy the bits you need. On the face of it, it's similar to Microsoft's COM concept, but it's a bit more dynamic than that, and far easier to use.
Ultimately I have ideas about the future of mainstream parallel computing, and I'm hoping to follow them. The environment is aimed at supporting design tools for that type of solution.
Why do you ask?
>> Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 16th March 21:34
How about, any software that might make money. The bottom line is that I've written allsorts. I am in the process of providing a framework - distributed application - that allows me to write licenceable modules, that can be freely distributed.
The basic idea is that if you had an application like excel, you'd only buy the bits you need. On the face of it, it's similar to Microsoft's COM concept, but it's a bit more dynamic than that, and far easier to use.
Ultimately I have ideas about the future of mainstream parallel computing, and I'm hoping to follow them. The environment is aimed at supporting design tools for that type of solution.
Why do you ask?
>> Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 16th March 21:34
Pigeon said:
Legit software doesn't need to cost anything...
Your right! But then again it usually takes about 2 hours to install a graphics driver.....that's after you've compiled the source code, recompiled the driver, install the correct files....and then restart! Phew!
Plus there isn't any decent video/photo editing suites in Linux!
[quote=_Dobbo_]I agree that a lot of software is expensive, but coming from the other side of this, I invested my own money to start up a software company along with several of my colleagues. We lose hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to people stealing our software instead of buying it, and like most other companies in the software industry are finding the going increasingly difficult since "dot com bubble" has well and truly burst.
Why should I pay out of my pocket because people are too cheap to buy our product? Look at it this way - assuming you can't afford a Pagani Zonda - is it ok to go out and steal one? How about a 50" widescreen plasma TV. Nice to have, can't be bothered to pay, would you steal one from a shop? Or a house?
quote]
Can we assume, then, that you've never copied an audio CD, taped an album for the car...?
Why should I pay out of my pocket because people are too cheap to buy our product? Look at it this way - assuming you can't afford a Pagani Zonda - is it ok to go out and steal one? How about a 50" widescreen plasma TV. Nice to have, can't be bothered to pay, would you steal one from a shop? Or a house?
quote]
Can we assume, then, that you've never copied an audio CD, taped an album for the car...?
I generally pay for software, I dont usually bother with the latest and greatest so I just wait until it get cheaper and I can afford it. With Music on the other hand, I very very rarely bought any music on CD before MP3s became common, and even if MP3s never existed or were suddenly banned somehow then I would still not pay for the overpriced trash that is called music these days. I hear it enough on the radio to get annoyed by endless repeats anyway.
Dr Strangelove said:
maybe if software wasn't so expensive...
Multinationals aside, have you any idea what even a very small application costs to develop? Let alone market, package and (and here's a biggie) support.
Add to that the fact that most of the "general purpose" software markets (id such a thing exists
) are tied up by the big boys, most software houses have to develop niche products with a limited customer base and therefore the price of the product has to be set at a level that will produce a profit, or else what's the point? >> Edited by pdV6 on Thursday 17th March 09:25
pdV6 said:
maybe if software wasn't so expensive...
Multinationals aside, have you any idea what even a very small application costs to develop? Let alone market, package and (and here's a biggie) support.
>> Edited by pdV6 on Thursday 17th March 09:25
Have you any idea how much it costs for a user to support bug infested 'crapware' in terms of downtime, lost work, lost clients, demoralised staff, etc. I genuinely take the point about fledgling software companies. But when it comes to the ubiquetous shrinkwrap crapware from the likes of MS, Adobe, Macromedia, et al. Our government (and others) should insist they adhere to 'standards of use' and the obligation to support at a non extortinate rate should be part of the deal. Instead our feckless-toothless leaders just roll over at the first sight of a corporate lawyer proclaiming the right of the market to regulate itself. It's the emprires they build from their profits that are so costly to support, not the actual development which in reality is carried out by a relatively small percentage of their staff. The rest are just middle managers and marketeers.
And when you buy a Pagoni Zonda it doesn't come with a usage licence that says "this is not guaranteed to work at all, oh and if it blows up in your garage and takes your house with it....tough".
Plus a it doesn't say "This car is licenced for use by only one driver, should you wish another driver to use it you have to buy another one".
You know what I mean, you've written software licence agreements. And so have I, because I write software for a living.
Plus a it doesn't say "This car is licenced for use by only one driver, should you wish another driver to use it you have to buy another one".
You know what I mean, you've written software licence agreements. And so have I, because I write software for a living.
Dr Strangelove said:
Have you any idea how much it costs for a user to support bug infested 'crapware' in terms of downtime, lost work, lost clients, demoralised staff, etc. I genuinely take the point about fledgling software companies. But when it comes to the ubiquetous shrinkwrap crapware from the likes of MS, Adobe, Macromedia, et al.
Totally agree. The solution is either:
(a) Stick with a version you're happy with, rather than buying into the whole "must have the latest, buggiest version" scene.
or
(b) Vote with your feet. Find a product that reliably does what you want and buy that instead.
cazzer said:
And when you buy a Pagoni Zonda it doesn't come with a usage licence that says "this is not guaranteed to work at all, oh and if it blows up in your garage and takes your house with it....tough".
Plus a it doesn't say "This car is licenced for use by only one driver, should you wish another driver to use it you have to buy another one".
You know what I mean, you've written software licence agreements. And so have I, because I write software for a living.
And that is the crux of the problem. While we have the small minority of companies who look to capitalise on the loopholes and charge a fortune, there will be the priates.
Microsoft charges a fortune for its software (have you seen the price of XP these days?) while others are forced out of the market. Porsche is a good "car" comparison to take.
Porsche is very profitable
Porsche have yet to launch a crap car in some time
All Porsches come with a warranty
All Porsches are expensive
All Porsches improve from model to model
Yet in real terms models such as the 911 are not getting more expensive. They get faster, more economical, safer and more comfortable - yet cost little or no more than the previous version. And when they go pear-shaped, there are people who will help you out....
Compare that with the progression of Microsoft software and its costs! Now tell me one company isnt here to rip us all off (and I aint talking about the Germans!).
Ok, so its a bad analogy and in general software quality is improving. But its hard to fight the software pirates when the CEO and half of his / her staff call all afford a Zonda....
cazzer said:
And when you buy a Pagoni Zonda it doesn't come with a usage licence that says "this is not guaranteed to work at all, oh and if it blows up in your garage and takes your house with it....tough".
Plus a it doesn't say "This car is licenced for use by only one driver, should you wish another driver to use it you have to buy another one".
You know what I mean, you've written software licence agreements. And so have I, because I write software for a living.
Ok fair enough, but when you buy a Zonda you also don't get free oil changes and tyres and free repairs if you try to park it in a space too small and scratch it up.
The whole car analogy is crap anyway, I was really only using it to demonstrate that software theft seems to be acceptable with no really good reason.
wedg1e said:
Can we assume, then, that you've never copied an audio CD, taped an album for the car...?
No, hence me saying this:
_Dobbo_ said:
Sorry if it seems I'm sermonising - I'm not actually against it as much as this posting would appear, but I'm just trying to show there is another side to this! Now where's that violin smiley...
I was really just trying to point out that the entire software industry isn't made up of fat cat millionaires who decide to charge a fortune for every product because they can.
off_again said:
But its hard to fight the software pirates when the CEO and half of his / her staff call all afford a Zonda....
But why shouldn't they afford that? And just because they can, is it ok to steal from them? I for one work damn hard and risked my own money to start up a company. If I ever get to the point that I can afford a zonda then it'll be through hard work and effort. Why on earth then should it be so acceptable for people to steal my company's products?
Pistonheads has several very wealthy members - assuming they are in banking, or insurance, or own their own business, none of us would begrudge them their nice cars and high salaries. And certainly we wouldn't steal their products or services.
So why should it matter that they own or work for a software company?
edited to fix a typo
>> Edited by _Dobbo_ on Thursday 17th March 11:05
IMHO www.openoffice.org has the best value software for typing/home account spreadsheets/presentations etc.
It is a free download
It is a free download
beanbag said:
Legit software doesn't need to cost anything...
Your right! But then again it usually takes about 2 hours to install a graphics driver.....that's after you've compiled the source code, recompiled the driver, install the correct files....and then restart! Phew!
Plus there isn't any decent video/photo editing suites in Linux!
Last time I installed Suse, it required me to type in about 5 boxes and took 20 minutes. No driver worries, no problems.
GIMP is pretty much everything you'll ever need for photo work.
_Dobbo_ said:
But why shouldn't they afford that? And just because they can, is it ok to steal from them? I for one work damn hard and risked my own money to start up a company. If I ever get to the point that I can afford a zonda then it'll be through hard work and effort. Why on earth then should it be so acceptable for people to steal my company's products?
I completely agree, but I was merely pointing out that this *is* a hard argument to make to someone who is willing to pirate software. Its along the same lines as a burglar or someone who nicks mobiles and stereos from cars - its victimless as its insured anyway....
Of course reality isnt like that and yes it is theft....
What I personally do begrudge is the extremely restrictive license agreements you find with software and entertainment. Quite why a major record company expects me to purchase two or more different formats of the same song / album / music I dont know.... now that *is* taking the michael..... same goes for software - its more expensive to buy that PC hardware without Windows than with a distro of Linux (free)....mmm, why? Run that past me again then....
Even those license agreements stretch what is reasonable, fair and sensible given the technology which is available to you and I.
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff