Any chemicals boffins here?
Discussion
Suppose, for example you were given a tin of Varnish, and you wanted to find out what its constituent parts, ratios and ultimately its formulation were. How would one go about this?. Is it possible?. Would it be an expensive process to find the answers?.
sensible answers only please.
sensible answers only please.
Look on the label?Dr Strangelove said:
Suppose, for example you were given a tin of Varnish, and you wanted to find out what its constituent parts, ratios and ultimately its formulation were. How would one go about this?. Is it possible?. Would it be an expensive process to find the answers?.
sensible answers only please.
you would a mass spec to break a sample down into it constituent parts ,but these are not readily available a bit specialised
www.epa.gov/grtlakes/seahome/housewaste/house/paintrem.htm
any good ?
Someone with experience in the field would be able to tell you a lot just by looking at it, IE is it polyurethane or oil-based, tung oil or linseed oil, etc.
Solvents are pretty standard.
The tricky thing I guess would be the minor additives that tend to go in to modify flow properties, cure time etc. A mass spectrometer would give you the relative quantities of these things, but would not tell you why they were there.
Again I think someone with decent experience in coatings formulation would be able to tell you a lot just by inspection.
Solvents are pretty standard.
The tricky thing I guess would be the minor additives that tend to go in to modify flow properties, cure time etc. A mass spectrometer would give you the relative quantities of these things, but would not tell you why they were there.
Again I think someone with decent experience in coatings formulation would be able to tell you a lot just by inspection.
It's a few tins of some very interesting varnish that I found when clearing out my (now departed) Grandad's shed before demolition of said shed to make way for granny's new rose garden. He was a boffin and always tinkering with chemicals/compounds, but we can't find any notes relating to them.
Was he a serious wood worker by any chance?
I've heard of people making up their own traditional varnishes for replica furniture, firearms, instruments etc. Things like leaving jars of tung oil on the roof for a year to be polymerised by the sunlight.
Most of these recipes involve boiling up mixtures of oils, resins, solvents etc on your gas cooker...
I've heard of people making up their own traditional varnishes for replica furniture, firearms, instruments etc. Things like leaving jars of tung oil on the roof for a year to be polymerised by the sunlight.
Most of these recipes involve boiling up mixtures of oils, resins, solvents etc on your gas cooker...
MilnerR said:
chromatography followed by mass spec. Any decent Uni research Lab could do it; not that i'm offering my services, more than my jobs worth guv'
Rob,
If I approched them directly, what kind of cost are we talking about?. Essentialy I want to re-formulate it, but I need somebody who knows what they are talking about.
You could ask for the MSDS (Material safety data sheet) which would tell you.
If you need it in more detail then you are probably looking at GC-MS (Gas chromatography (separates it out) mass spectrometry (identifies the components (its a shit analytical technique in my opinion but it has its uses)).
Universities/analytical people will offer this service for you I beleive...
www.york.ac.uk/depts/chem/extern/services.html#eservicems for example
If you need it in more detail then you are probably looking at GC-MS (Gas chromatography (separates it out) mass spectrometry (identifies the components (its a shit analytical technique in my opinion but it has its uses)).
Universities/analytical people will offer this service for you I beleive...
www.york.ac.uk/depts/chem/extern/services.html#eservicems for example
I inadvertently made my own varnish by dissolving lumps of expanded polystyrene in white spirit. Don't ask me why I was doing this; it seemed like a good idea at the time... I just kept loading chunks in and watching them disappear, until it was saturated. Then I brushed the stuff onto a piece of wood and it dried to a pretty good satin finish!
(C) Simpo two 2005. Well probably 1978 actually...
(C) Simpo two 2005. Well probably 1978 actually...
simpo two said:
I inadvertently made my own varnish by dissolving lumps of expanded polystyrene in white spirit. Don't ask me why I was doing this; it seemed like a good idea at the time... I just kept loading chunks in and watching them disappear, until it was saturated. Then I brushed the stuff onto a piece of wood and it dried to a pretty good satin finish!
(C) Simpo two 2005. Well probably 1978 actually...
Do the same thing with petrol and you get napalm...burns like hell.
D_Mike said:The man's not wrong, I guess you're on 10% D_Mike
You could ask for the MSDS (Material safety data sheet) which would tell you.
If you need it in more detail then you are probably looking at GC-MS (Gas chromatography (separates it out) mass spectrometry (identifies the components (its a shit analytical technique in my opinion but it has its uses)).
Universities/analytical people will offer this service for you I beleive...
www.york.ac.uk/depts/chem/extern/services.html#eservicems for example
Dr Strangelove said:
chromatography followed by mass spec. Any decent Uni research Lab could do it; not that i'm offering my services, more than my jobs worth guv'
Rob,
If I approched them directly, what kind of cost are we talking about?. Essentialy I want to re-formulate it, but I need somebody who knows what they are talking about.
Get in touch with the chemistry department at the University of Manchester (I work in the cell biology and biochemistry department there, so i'm not much help when it comes to fiddling with this sort of chemistry) they might be able to help you, they certainly have the kit to do it. Look on the website www.chemistry.manchester.ac.uk/research/ and send off a few emails, I expect you'll get a few helpful replies.
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