"Son of Kyoto" Even More Stupid
Discussion
I'm not really a fan of extremist websites either way of the global warming argument but have a look at [url]www.globalwarming.org[/url] which is pretty much against the Kyoto protocol.
For a change.
For a change.
Jimbeuax
Alot of current anti-americanism in Europe is driven by the USA's unwillingness to reduce Co2 emmissions.
Now we can debate global warming all we like, but my understanding is that scientists are pretty well decided that Co2 emissions are causing rising temperatures.
The Kyoto treaty had its flaws-not least exempting rapidly industrialising countries such as China-but America is such a big place that it accounts for a big slice of co2 emmissions and if doesn't get serious-what can we do by ourselves?.
America can act in ways that does not damage its economy. Raising petrol taxes to the European average for instance (with a corresponding cut in income tax) would encourage more fuel efficient cars.
Alot of current anti-americanism in Europe is driven by the USA's unwillingness to reduce Co2 emmissions.
Now we can debate global warming all we like, but my understanding is that scientists are pretty well decided that Co2 emissions are causing rising temperatures.
The Kyoto treaty had its flaws-not least exempting rapidly industrialising countries such as China-but America is such a big place that it accounts for a big slice of co2 emmissions and if doesn't get serious-what can we do by ourselves?.
America can act in ways that does not damage its economy. Raising petrol taxes to the European average for instance (with a corresponding cut in income tax) would encourage more fuel efficient cars.
Jaglover said:Not so. For starters each rise or fall in temperature noted in the geological record that has sufficient time resolution, the carbon dioxide rise (or fall) follows the temperature change so can hardly be a direct cause of it.
Now we can debate global warming all we like, but my understanding is that scientists are pretty well decided that Co2 emissions are causing rising temperatures.
For finishers the carbon dioxide and temperature correlation is poor over the aeons whereas, where records exist, the solar activity and cosmic ray flux have extremely good correlations with temperature over their respective timescales.
Global warming scientists - the best money can buy?
Jaglover said:
Jimbeuax
Alot of current anti-americanism in Europe is driven by the USA's unwillingness to reduce Co2 emmissions.
Now we can debate global warming all we like, but my understanding is that scientists are pretty well decided that Co2 emissions are causing rising temperatures.
The Kyoto treaty had its flaws-not least exempting rapidly industrialising countries such as China-but America is such a big place that it accounts for a big slice of co2 emmissions and if doesn't get serious-what can we do by ourselves?.
America can act in ways that does not damage its economy. Raising petrol taxes to the European average for instance (with a corresponding cut in income tax) would encourage more fuel efficient cars.
America will never be allowed to get involved in this stupidity for 3 reasons.
1 Kyoto is communist by nature and the Americans fear communism more than anything
2 Unlike our Idiotic politicians who claim victories when 10% of people vote for them (Ie 90% of people don't want them) The Americans dont have this problem to anything like the same extent.
3 The Americans have guns and will take out Government when they become insane. Thats why we have Blair who is insane and they have Bush who is just thick.
jimbeaux said:
I agree with this; this bull$hit game is up!
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150786,00.html
Oh yes, Fox news the gospel of truth......
Sorry, any credibility this story might have had has just been lost by its association with this station which is set up to misinform people with half truths and blatant lies.
968 said:
jimbeaux said:
I agree with this; this bull$hit game is up!
<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150786,00.html"><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150786,00.html">www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150786,00.html</a></a>
Oh yes, Fox news the gospel of truth......
Sorry, any credibility this story might have had has just been lost by its association with this station which is set up to misinform people with half truths and blatant lies.
Many of the people who are criticising Jimbeux for using a biased source, Fox news, will, without apparent irony, post links to a guardian or BBC news article.
The problem here I believe is that the article is not a news story as such but a columnist-and columnists at any media organisation can often be saying crap.
>> Edited by Jaglover on Saturday 19th March 11:30
turbobloke said:
Not so. For starters each rise or fall in temperature noted in the geological record that has sufficient time resolution, the carbon dioxide rise (or fall) follows the temperature change so can hardly be a direct cause of it.
For finishers the carbon dioxide and temperature correlation is poor over the aeons whereas, where records exist, the solar activity and cosmic ray flux have extremely good correlations with temperature over their respective timescales.
Global warming scientists - the best money can buy?
The Economist, who's judgement I trust in the matter, believes that Global warming is a real, and at least partly man made phenomon, but that the expenditure involved in a drastic reduction in Co2 emmissions is currently too high too justify itself.
A recent conference of Economists and scientists met in Copenhagen-to try and develop what would be known as the 'Copenhagen Consensus'-the most cost effective ways of helping mankind-Drastic Co2 reductions came far down the list-due to the immense costs involved.
For less money many diseases can be iradicated in the 3rd world-or secure water and sanitation provided for hundreds of millions.
I'm not saying that America should have signed up for Kyoto-it was a flawed treaty-but that its failure to do so it one of the drivers of current anti-americanism.
It shows a selfish atitude which is unworthy of a country which regards itself as a moral beacon for others.
What are the solutions?-a new Kyoto in my view which incorporates all countries and calls for less drastic reductions.
In the future I hope and pray that new technologies will be developed/modified that allow more cost effective reductions.
Jaglover said:
jimbeaux said:
I agree with this; this bull$hit game is up!
<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150786,00.html"><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150786,00.html">www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150786,00.html</a></a>
Oh yes, Fox news the gospel of truth......
Sorry, any credibility this story might have had has just been lost by its association with this station which is set up to misinform people with half truths and blatant lies.
Many of the people who are criticising Jimbeux for using a biased source, Fox news, will, without apparent irony, post links to a guardian or BBC news article.
The problem here I believe is that the article is not a news story as such but a columnist-and columnist at any media organisation can often be saying crap.
Indeed
A prime example is George Mombiot. You can tell if he is saying crap though cos he has either written it or he is talking.
Jaglover said:
Many of the people who are criticising Jimbeux for using a biased source, Fox news, will, without apparent irony, post links to a guardian or BBC news article.
The problem here I believe is that the article is not a news story as such but a columnist-and columnists at any media organisation can often be saying crap.
>> Edited by Jaglover on Saturday 19th March 11:30
The integrity of the BBC is far higher than Fox.
jimbeaux said:
I agree with this; this bull$hit game is up!
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150786,00.html
I cannot believe anyone quoting Fox News as a source of factual information. It is just a Murdoch propaganda machine. In fact Goebbels was far more accurate as a source of news.
GMan 2112 said:
Many of the people who are criticising Jimbeux for using a biased source, Fox news, will, without apparent irony, post links to a guardian or BBC news article.
The problem here I believe is that the article is not a news story as such but a columnist-and columnists at any media organisation can often be saying crap.
>> Edited by Jaglover on Saturday 19th March 11:30
The integrity of the BBC is far higher than Fox.
Perhaps-and it was once possessed of a high integrity
Now it is a biased source of news-perhaps not as bad as Fox news (I think you would have to watch both every day to make a clear judgement)but biased none the less.
You are aware I take it that the BBC now only advertises job vacancies in the Guardian-That more than anything else tells you the kind of people they want working for them.
GMan 2112 said:Integrity? The inherent bias in the beeb is apparent to even Labour MPs, at least one is so incensed at the notion that they've criticised aunty's pro-Labour stance in print. The BBC, along with the Indy and the Grauniad, are so on-message that if Tiny Bliar says Prescott is slim they'd put out editorial and a photoshopped image of Prezza just to support the grinning jackanape.
The integrity of the BBC is far higher than Fox.
Those who attack Fox - whatever it is - are just going down the same path trodden by all the lentilists, they can't attack the substance of the message successfully so they smear the messenger or attack an organisation.
Kyoto has no basis. Climate change is entirely natural and normal, we haven't caused it and we can't cure it as there's nothing to cure. The implication that climate has been unchanging until the industrial revolution and that man-made carbon dioxide is doing anything other than turbocharging growth of trees and crops is unscientific claptrap with no credible evidence to support it.
Satellite data and balloon data, whether atmosphere or surface, fail to show the warming predicted by the computer models that Kyoto is based on. The only shred of 'evidece' is the Mann hockeystick and related guff, that's been debunked continuously, including this year with an excellent paper in GRL that shows the sudden warming in the graph'z shape is an artefact. Ho hum.
The pro- man-made global warming industry, mostly trendy lefty university departments, are "so corrupted by the largesse they receive that the scientists in them have sold their integrity" (Dr Piers Corbyn, Weather Action). awaits the inevitable unsubstantiated and irrelevant attack on Weather Action
The environ mentalists have achieved a spectacular PR coup and have industry by the neck and governments with tax-raising, capitalism-controlling tendencies have seen the gold dust in supporting the econutters. The unholy alliance will unravel eventually as truth always prevails, until then we'll have to suffer the usual heady mix of junk science and emotive b0ll0x from Greenpeas and Fiends of the Earth.
As we were - global warming scientists, the best money can buy?
turbobloke said:
The integrity of the BBC is far higher than Fox.
Integrity? The inherent bias in the beeb is apparent to even Labour MPs, at least one is so incensed at the notion that they've criticised aunty's pro-Labour stance in print. The BBC, along with the Indy and the Grauniad, are so on-message that if Tiny Bliar says Prescott is slim they'd put out editorial and a photoshopped image of Prezza just to support the grinning jackanape.
Those who attack Fox - whatever it is - are just going down the same path trodden by all the lentilists, they can't attack the substance of the message successfully so they smear the messenger or attack an organisation.
Kyoto has no basis. Climate change is entirely natural and normal, we haven't caused it and we can't cure it as there's nothing to cure. The implication that climate has been unchanging until the industrial revolution and that man-made carbon dioxide is doing anything other than turbocharging growth of trees and crops is unscientific claptrap with no credible evidence to support it.
Satellite data and balloon data, whether atmosphere or surface, fail to show the warming predicted by the computer models that Kyoto is based on. The only shred of 'evidece' is the Mann hockeystick and related guff, that's been debunked continuously, including this year with an excellent paper in GRL that shows the sudden warming in the graph'z shape is an artefact. Ho hum.
The pro- man-made global warming industry, mostly trendy lefty university departments, are "so corrupted by the largesse they receive that the scientists in them have sold their integrity" (Dr Piers Corbyn, Weather Action). awaits the inevitable unsubstantiated and irrelevant attack on Weather Action
The environ mentalists have achieved a spectacular PR coup and have industry by the neck and governments with tax-raising, capitalism-controlling tendencies have seen the gold dust in supporting the econutters. The unholy alliance will unravel eventually as truth always prevails, until then we'll have to suffer the usual heady mix of junk science and emotive b0ll0x from Greenpeas and Fiends of the Earth.
As we were - global warming scientists, the best money can buy?
Thanks for your words Turbo - I know Fox seems right-leaning. People might stop to consider the biased media that was the only choice for so long has made the left feel that the media was their personal bastion. Now that there is another view, they feel utterly insulted. Good sum up as well - "Best scientists money can buy"!
jimbeaux said:Cheers. Don't know Fox, so I'll gladly take your word for it.
Thanks for your words Turbo - I know Fox seems right-leaning.
The right-left coverage contrast correctly portrays the situation with global warming, which is no longer a debate about science, just politics. As the delegate at a carbon emissions trading conference in London acknowledged in a conversation with me: "Global warming isn't about the environment, it's about politics, trade and taxes." Yup.
c c said:I think I get your point. I have the same feeling whenever I read the Grauniad. Circulation that small must mean it's being read only by the folk who got their pointless public sector jobs from its sits vac pages. Content wise it's the same, lefty faithful preaching to the pinko converted, the stuff they print about transport and the environment is just laughable. However, I'd want to address that content when belittling the Grauniad, rather than simply point out the inherent bias.
The thing about Fox News is that from a UK perspective it is almost impossible to take seriously. It practicably reinforces the stereotype image of Americans as a nation of gullible inward-looking simpletons.
nonegreen said:There'll soon be a few thou less than there was, no loss, but you're right it needs to go much further. The BBC should be forced to demonstrate absolute political neutrality in everything it does and says, that's how it's meant to be after all - and be fined enormous sums of money whenever it starts crawling up Bliar's backside. It'd be shut down within a month.
Time we scrapped the BBC altogether. load lof lentilmunching tossers the lot of em.
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