The Terrorists In Our Midst...
Discussion
Everyone must have seen the story yesterday about the convicted police murderer and terrorist plotter, Kamel Bourgass.
What an astonishing, diabolical state of affairs.
That this bogus immigrant was still around following his rejected application speaks volumes about that issue but possibly more importantly, it really must force the debate concerning how we handle internal security against the desire to maintain our broadly free and open society?
I'm not convinced that ID cards would make Bo Diddley difference in these matters but certainly, I'd be more inclined to hear out those calling for blunter, pragmatic actions which in limited cases, may effect temporary cessations of individual liberties.
Of course, such glibly pronounced support for a secret service style carte blanche policy to do who knows what is fraught with potential difficulties but let's face it, who the hell knows what our MiB do 99% of the time anyway?
When Bourgass was convicted yesterday, as well as devoting time to discussion of the events themselves, the acquittal of several other suspects was probed at some length too with an inference of police heavy handedness and of course, potential abuses of civil liberties...
Now, I'm thinking to myself: hang on, these people were acquaintances of the convicted and one of them apparently photocopied the ricin recipes, ffs...is it not reasonable to have equally strong misgivings about such characters?
So whilst a potentially murderous killing spree was prevented, the consideration of what appears to be perfectly acceptable investigative labours are given a disturbing 'spin' by the media.
How so? What is it about our society that we cannot see the bleedin' obvious and be thankful of what would otherwise have been a catastrophe?
It seems to me inevitable that eventually, one of these lunatics will get through: how would that eventuality be perceived in the media and how would the government - and society at large - react?
It seems to me, that ex-Met supremo Stevens was far from scaremongering with his 'sleeping cell' prognosis.
Also significant, I thought, was the coordinated nature of terrorist activity via cells in France: France? Devil's Advocate in all matters pertaining to the transatlantic alliance, opponent to the whole Iraqi situation and general poo-pooer of the Bliar/Dubya show...surely proving the brutal mindlessness of the these bastards against 'the west' per se and not, as certain liberal voices claim, merely those pursuing 'imperialist foreign policies,' 'antagonising' the Middle East or the world of Islam in general?
Thoughts on a postcard, in the usual manner, danker.
What an astonishing, diabolical state of affairs.
That this bogus immigrant was still around following his rejected application speaks volumes about that issue but possibly more importantly, it really must force the debate concerning how we handle internal security against the desire to maintain our broadly free and open society?
I'm not convinced that ID cards would make Bo Diddley difference in these matters but certainly, I'd be more inclined to hear out those calling for blunter, pragmatic actions which in limited cases, may effect temporary cessations of individual liberties.
Of course, such glibly pronounced support for a secret service style carte blanche policy to do who knows what is fraught with potential difficulties but let's face it, who the hell knows what our MiB do 99% of the time anyway?
When Bourgass was convicted yesterday, as well as devoting time to discussion of the events themselves, the acquittal of several other suspects was probed at some length too with an inference of police heavy handedness and of course, potential abuses of civil liberties...
Now, I'm thinking to myself: hang on, these people were acquaintances of the convicted and one of them apparently photocopied the ricin recipes, ffs...is it not reasonable to have equally strong misgivings about such characters?
So whilst a potentially murderous killing spree was prevented, the consideration of what appears to be perfectly acceptable investigative labours are given a disturbing 'spin' by the media.
How so? What is it about our society that we cannot see the bleedin' obvious and be thankful of what would otherwise have been a catastrophe?
It seems to me inevitable that eventually, one of these lunatics will get through: how would that eventuality be perceived in the media and how would the government - and society at large - react?
It seems to me, that ex-Met supremo Stevens was far from scaremongering with his 'sleeping cell' prognosis.
Also significant, I thought, was the coordinated nature of terrorist activity via cells in France: France? Devil's Advocate in all matters pertaining to the transatlantic alliance, opponent to the whole Iraqi situation and general poo-pooer of the Bliar/Dubya show...surely proving the brutal mindlessness of the these bastards against 'the west' per se and not, as certain liberal voices claim, merely those pursuing 'imperialist foreign policies,' 'antagonising' the Middle East or the world of Islam in general?
Thoughts on a postcard, in the usual manner, danker.
Is this the one that yet again involved people at the Mosque in Finsbury Park?
We know where atleast some of the
terrorists are (at this mosque) yet we still let them continue with what they are doing, infact we as tax payers are propping them all up.
Sure, give the rest of us ID cards and remove our civil rights and tell us we are about to be attacked while you don't actually do anything about the problems that are staring us in the face.
If i start up a club and the members of my Club are constantly causing trouble and breaking laws because thats what my club rules dictate, then my club will be raided and i will be jailed...is it cos i is white?
We know where atleast some of the
terrorists are (at this mosque) yet we still let them continue with what they are doing, infact we as tax payers are propping them all up. Sure, give the rest of us ID cards and remove our civil rights and tell us we are about to be attacked while you don't actually do anything about the problems that are staring us in the face.
If i start up a club and the members of my Club are constantly causing trouble and breaking laws because thats what my club rules dictate, then my club will be raided and i will be jailed...is it cos i is white?
IMHO we should slam the door firmly closed now....NO immigration, NO asylum seekers, all arrivals MUST have either an EU Passport or issued visa, ANYONE without either FOR ANY REASON subject to immediate deportation without trial.......... And none of this wobbly weak.kneed liberalistic "let 'em all in whatever" policy...
Both Germany and France have officially declared that they are NOT immigration countries and are actively discouraging immigration! So why can't we?
Both Germany and France have officially declared that they are NOT immigration countries and are actively discouraging immigration! So why can't we?
I wonder how many people know that there is no connection between a visa expiring and the Home Office removing them.
The HO post a letter to them saying they have 14 days to leave or they will be deported - there is no follow up.
Nor is there any record kept of people leaving the country once their visa has expired.
Is there any wonder we are up to our @rses in illegals?
The HO post a letter to them saying they have 14 days to leave or they will be deported - there is no follow up.
Nor is there any record kept of people leaving the country once their visa has expired.
Is there any wonder we are up to our @rses in illegals?
From what I've read, ID cards would have had no effect on this case whatsoever, nor would any changes in our asylum policy. The problem was purely that the existing laws and asylum process were so badly implemented that this guy was allowed to stay in the country for something like 18 months before they decided he wasn't welcome, and when he stayed he was even arrested and released without the police being aware he should have been deported.
All this we're getting from the politicians about being tougher on immigrants is irrelevant if the systems at present can't actually handle their workload. They correctly identified someone who was a danger to our society, but then failed to do anything about it.
As usual the beaureaucrats are more concerned with adding new laws than actually making the thick layer of bureaucracy work efficiently.
All this
we're getting from the politicians about being tougher on immigrants is irrelevant if the systems at present can't actually handle their workload. They correctly identified someone who was a danger to our society, but then failed to do anything about it. As usual the beaureaucrats are more concerned with adding new laws than actually making the thick layer of bureaucracy work efficiently.
mechsympathy said:
And this produces more calls for ID cards.
He was a failed asylum seeker. He had no right to be in the country anyway, so just how exactly would the rest of us having ID cards have helped??
I cant believe this whole mess, glad I'm leaving..
ID cards wouldnt have made a blind bit of difference here, we knew who he was, we knew he was here illigaly, him having a card saying he was him wouldnt have changed a thing.
As for thsi 'proving' terrorism , after many many arrests and charges they manage to get one to stick on a convicted murderer, who didnt sound awfully competent anyhow, with this and the lone 'shoe' bomber were turning the UK into a police state.
Welcome to 1984 peeps.
the trouble is, we as a country are just too bloody soft, we have legislated away the human rights of the majority to satisfy the whims of the minority.
an island like ours should have no difficulty keeping undesirables out. some tough lessons need to be learned from this incident and trial. and the first thing i would do is scrap the human rights legislation asap.
until that is done things can only get worse.
as for the convicted...a one way trip to the tower, we will provide a second shirt to stop him shivering.....he has a dawn appointment with a block of wood.
an island like ours should have no difficulty keeping undesirables out. some tough lessons need to be learned from this incident and trial. and the first thing i would do is scrap the human rights legislation asap.
until that is done things can only get worse.
as for the convicted...a one way trip to the tower, we will provide a second shirt to stop him shivering.....he has a dawn appointment with a block of wood.
wooooooooooahhhhhhhhhhhh.
Hold up fella's - you've been tricked...
Look back at the US election - on the run up to that they had 3 major terrorist scares...
and as predicited, we would also have some high profile terrorist threat against us in the lead-up to the election..
You wait - next week Tony will stand up and say 'We are the only party prepared to protect this country against the terrorist threat'
And then - there will be more 'terrorist scares' on election day... you wait...
Hold up fella's - you've been tricked...
Look back at the US election - on the run up to that they had 3 major terrorist scares...
and as predicited, we would also have some high profile terrorist threat against us in the lead-up to the election..
You wait - next week Tony will stand up and say 'We are the only party prepared to protect this country against the terrorist threat'
And then - there will be more 'terrorist scares' on election day... you wait...
ian d said:
the trouble is, we as a country are just too bloody soft, we have legislated away the human rights of the majority to satisfy the whims of the minority.
an island like ours should have no difficulty keeping undesirables out. some tough lessons need to be learned from this incident and trial. and the first thing i would do is scrap the human rights legislation asap.
until that is done things can only get worse.
as for the convicted...a one way trip to the tower, we will provide a second shirt to stop him shivering.....he has a dawn appointment with a block of wood.
Well posted. I cannot believe some of the small minded vitriolic xenophobia in some of the other posts. The worst thing to have come out of terrorism is the destruction of the freedom of every citizen in Britain by power crazed labour politicians. They are using it as an excuse to bring in their big brother philosophy. Notice how you can't use cash anymore for instance. Yes, they blamed that measure on terrorism!
The dead policemen was just plain incompetence.
We need more immigrants to fill the demographic hole, I'm all for it as it gives us a richer and more diverse society. What I don't like is this soggy left wing multi culturalism where they live in ghettos and behave like they were still in their home country. If they want to live in Britain they should adapt to being British. Learning the language would be a good start.
As for terrorism, the threat is miniscule. Tobacco kills more than 300 Britains every single day and maims many more, why don't they sort that out first? Our laws and instruments of state worked against the IRA so why do we need these draconian measures now?
Whenever an issue such as asylum keeps appearing time and time again even though it has little real impact on the country as a whole i start looking for what is being hidden. Then i see my monthly wage slip and look at the sort of house i can afford and consider how hard i work and everything makes sense....
What bugs me the most is that these people are allowed to be a part of our society whilst we process them.
This i think is fundamentally wrong.
You shouldn't be able to be a part of this society until you have been vetted, and allowed to stay. You cannot assume the same rights as everyone else until you have clearance.
We have fought for many many rights in our country - namely to be free - yet we are letting people who obviously don't agree with that philosophy - yet we let them partake in society.
They have decided to leave their own country - they should be put into centres until they are cleared. Once they are cleared all the rights that we enjoy can be extended to them as well.
This i think is fundamentally wrong.
You shouldn't be able to be a part of this society until you have been vetted, and allowed to stay. You cannot assume the same rights as everyone else until you have clearance.
We have fought for many many rights in our country - namely to be free - yet we are letting people who obviously don't agree with that philosophy - yet we let them partake in society.
They have decided to leave their own country - they should be put into centres until they are cleared. Once they are cleared all the rights that we enjoy can be extended to them as well.
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