Blair 'subverting British values'
Discussion
Blair 'subverting British values'
Tony Blair's government has allowed the special interests of a "politically correct" minority to subvert British values, Michael Howard has said.
During a speech on immigration and asylum, Mr Howard said those who dared to criticise groups that bent the rules were "intimidated into silence".
But no one stood up for British values which were "being trashed", he added.
Mr Blair said Mr Howard was playing on people's fears. The Lib Dems said he had a problem with his own Britishness.
Tory election briefing
Mr Howard said he had been "attacked ferociously" by Labour ministers when he said a "small minority of travellers" were abusing planning rules to set up illegal encampments.
These reactions went to "the very heart of what's gone wrong in our country", he said.
"Some people call it political correctness. Others call it moral relativism. I call it madness," he told party supporters in Watford.
"Common sense has been stood on its head. The victims have become the aggressors and the aggressors have become the victims."
On immigration, Mr Howard said a Tory government would "stop people abusing Britain's generosity".
There were "literally millions of people from poorer countries" who would like to settle in Britain - but the country could not take them all.
'Single issue'
But he was also keen to stress the contribution many valuable immigrants had made to Britain over the years.
Mr Blair accused the Tories of fighting a single issue campaign on immigration and said everybody knew what Michael Howard was doing at this election.
"I have never accused him of racism. What I have accused him of is opportunism because he is focusing on this issue and saying the government has done nothing."
Mr Howard was "playing on people's fears without having any sensible policy to deal with the issue", because the Tory economic plan had fallen apart.
The Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants said political parties were focused on a "narrow numbers game" of how many people the UK could keep out, detain and deport.
"This is an incredibly short-sighted and repressive approach. It fuels anti-migrant feeling while failing to make a vital connection between immigration and other policies."
'Yob culture'
Environment secretary Margaret Beckett accused Mr Howard of jumping on any passing bandwagon, adding that the asylum system was in better shape than the "shambles" he left in 1997.
"So it's nothing on the economy, lots on gypsies. Nothing on the impact of their cuts in public services, lots on isolated cases where things go wrong."
Liberal Democrat leader Charles Kennedy said: "I'd like to hear from Michael Howard what is it he's uncomfortable about, as someone who's instinctively hostile about Europe, who apparently is not very satisfied with the domestic mix of our make-up of this society, and was blatantly hostile to devolution within the United Kingdom.
"It seems to me he's the one who's got the problem about being British."
Later Mr Howard was tackled on BBC Radio 4's Election Call on the issue by a fellow son of a Jewish migrant who said every time the Tory leader spoke about immigration, he got a hard time.
"He's making life impossible for us because he has pandered to the xenophobic views of the readers of the Daily Mail," the contributor said.
Mr Howard countered that unless immigration was brought "under control" community relations would get worse.
But the caller accused the Tory leader of peddling a "cheap trick" and "patronising" him.
In his speech, Mr Howard also attacked "yob culture" - the effects of which were being felt across the country.
But tackling youth crime was not just a question of policing, it was also about parents and their responsibilities, he said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4447377.stm
Tony Blair's government has allowed the special interests of a "politically correct" minority to subvert British values, Michael Howard has said.
During a speech on immigration and asylum, Mr Howard said those who dared to criticise groups that bent the rules were "intimidated into silence".
But no one stood up for British values which were "being trashed", he added.
Mr Blair said Mr Howard was playing on people's fears. The Lib Dems said he had a problem with his own Britishness.
Tory election briefing
Mr Howard said he had been "attacked ferociously" by Labour ministers when he said a "small minority of travellers" were abusing planning rules to set up illegal encampments.
These reactions went to "the very heart of what's gone wrong in our country", he said.
"Some people call it political correctness. Others call it moral relativism. I call it madness," he told party supporters in Watford.
"Common sense has been stood on its head. The victims have become the aggressors and the aggressors have become the victims."
On immigration, Mr Howard said a Tory government would "stop people abusing Britain's generosity".
There were "literally millions of people from poorer countries" who would like to settle in Britain - but the country could not take them all.
'Single issue'
But he was also keen to stress the contribution many valuable immigrants had made to Britain over the years.
Mr Blair accused the Tories of fighting a single issue campaign on immigration and said everybody knew what Michael Howard was doing at this election.
"I have never accused him of racism. What I have accused him of is opportunism because he is focusing on this issue and saying the government has done nothing."
Mr Howard was "playing on people's fears without having any sensible policy to deal with the issue", because the Tory economic plan had fallen apart.
The Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants said political parties were focused on a "narrow numbers game" of how many people the UK could keep out, detain and deport.
"This is an incredibly short-sighted and repressive approach. It fuels anti-migrant feeling while failing to make a vital connection between immigration and other policies."
'Yob culture'
Environment secretary Margaret Beckett accused Mr Howard of jumping on any passing bandwagon, adding that the asylum system was in better shape than the "shambles" he left in 1997.
"So it's nothing on the economy, lots on gypsies. Nothing on the impact of their cuts in public services, lots on isolated cases where things go wrong."
Liberal Democrat leader Charles Kennedy said: "I'd like to hear from Michael Howard what is it he's uncomfortable about, as someone who's instinctively hostile about Europe, who apparently is not very satisfied with the domestic mix of our make-up of this society, and was blatantly hostile to devolution within the United Kingdom.
"It seems to me he's the one who's got the problem about being British."
Later Mr Howard was tackled on BBC Radio 4's Election Call on the issue by a fellow son of a Jewish migrant who said every time the Tory leader spoke about immigration, he got a hard time.
"He's making life impossible for us because he has pandered to the xenophobic views of the readers of the Daily Mail," the contributor said.
Mr Howard countered that unless immigration was brought "under control" community relations would get worse.
But the caller accused the Tory leader of peddling a "cheap trick" and "patronising" him.
In his speech, Mr Howard also attacked "yob culture" - the effects of which were being felt across the country.
But tackling youth crime was not just a question of policing, it was also about parents and their responsibilities, he said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4447377.stm
It <i>is</i> a good common sense policy to say that UNHCR should deal with asylum seekers. Unfortunately UNHCR are not set up to deal with asylum seekers and cann't (and don't want to) do anything about it in their current form.
How long does it take to reform an entire UN agency (especially one as corrupt as the UNHCR)? If the tories were to win this election, would it get done before the next election?
If I want to go there, I wouldn't start from here - it doesn't work as a manifesto...
How long does it take to reform an entire UN agency (especially one as corrupt as the UNHCR)? If the tories were to win this election, would it get done before the next election?
If I want to go there, I wouldn't start from here - it doesn't work as a manifesto...
Mon Ami Mate said:You have to laugh at that! You can imagin the caller ranting "You don't know what its like to be the son of an immigrant"!!!! Of course he does you fool!
Later Mr Howard was tackled on BBC Radio 4's Election Call on the issue by a fellow son of a Jewish migrant who said every time the Tory leader spoke about immigration, he got a hard time.
Michael Howard is quite correct in what he says and I'm glad he has the guts to say these things.
Many people think what he says, but don't have the nerve to say it; the climate in this country is one of fear of saying what you think for fear of being branded some kind of nut. It's a sad state to get in and I lay the blame directly at the door of left wing social engineers who have wormed their way cancer like into places of influence.
Many people think what he says, but don't have the nerve to say it; the climate in this country is one of fear of saying what you think for fear of being branded some kind of nut. It's a sad state to get in and I lay the blame directly at the door of left wing social engineers who have wormed their way cancer like into places of influence.
Couldnt agree more. Despite the fact that I consider my politics as very middle of the road, with the continuing emphasis of the PC Brigade on the needs of various minorities, Im finding that my own views are getting increasingly Right wing ?
Or perhaps its just that the Political landscape is getting more Left wing ? All relative I suppose.
As a single, white, home owning 34 year old tax payer in full time employment Im getting increasingly irate that at the end of the month when I get my wage slip, all I can see is the number of Chavvie/single parent (by design)/drug abusing pikies I help support on the sweat of my own labour.
Must say though, dont mind paying contributions towards our elderly members of Society. Despite their sacrifices during one (and in some instances two) World Wars, all we give them in return is a pathetic means tested pension and then expect them to sell their own property when they fall on hard times. Then when they eventually do pass away in wretched poverty, the Government then have the audacity to impose Inheratance Tax on the earnings/savings/property these people have managed to accumulate (and pay tax on) by way of their own hard work.
Apologies, rant over. Time for the pub.
Or perhaps its just that the Political landscape is getting more Left wing ? All relative I suppose.
As a single, white, home owning 34 year old tax payer in full time employment Im getting increasingly irate that at the end of the month when I get my wage slip, all I can see is the number of Chavvie/single parent (by design)/drug abusing pikies I help support on the sweat of my own labour.
Must say though, dont mind paying contributions towards our elderly members of Society. Despite their sacrifices during one (and in some instances two) World Wars, all we give them in return is a pathetic means tested pension and then expect them to sell their own property when they fall on hard times. Then when they eventually do pass away in wretched poverty, the Government then have the audacity to impose Inheratance Tax on the earnings/savings/property these people have managed to accumulate (and pay tax on) by way of their own hard work.
Apologies, rant over. Time for the pub.
victormeldrew said:
You have to laugh at that! You can imagin the caller ranting "You don't know what its like to be the son of an immigrant"!!!! Of course he does you fool!
Too bluddy right Vic !
Send all those illegals home, that's what we say !
But wait, what about all those illegal immigrant babies that are over-running the country ? Should we send 'em back, or should we let them stay, and grow up to become leader of the Conservative Party ?????
james_j said:
Michael Howard is quite correct in what he says and I'm glad he has the guts to say these things.
Many people think what he says, but don't have the nerve to say it; the climate in this country is one of fear of saying what you think for fear of being branded some kind of nut. It's a sad state to get in and I lay the blame directly at the door of left wing social engineers who have wormed their way cancer like into places of influence.
Very well put sir!
bor said:
You have to laugh at that! You can imagin the caller ranting "You don't know what its like to be the son of an immigrant"!!!! Of course he does you fool!
Too bluddy right Vic !
Send all those illegals home, that's what we say !
But wait, what about all those illegal immigrant babies that are over-running the country ? Should we send 'em back, or should we let them stay, and grow up to become leader of the Conservative Party ?????
So what do you say Bor? Let em all in? Where they gonna live? Who's gonna pay for em? You prepared to live next to em? You wont mind em having your job will you? After all, positive discrimination is what we need to level the field.....Blah blah blah........
In the end when these bunch of feckless feckheads have had their way, there wont be one white anglo saxon prostestant, heterosexual, car driving, smoking, drinking man or woman left, cos theyll all be asian or black, gay or trannyfied, cyclist islamists.
You want that? Fine, go
up your own country, leave ours alone. JagLover said:
That is the key thing the BBC/Guardian set have done-they have not changed how people think but what it is acceptable to say.
Mr Howard has come up with good common sense policies-and instead of debating with him he is condemned as a racist.
Kind of reinforces what he had already said, doesn't it?
First, we here in the States know about immigration; we are all "mutts" made up of those thrown out of every respectable nation there is/was
That said; I agree the Lib Dems are subverting common morals. Note: If someone injects here "well, what exactly is a common moral?", kick them in the nuts and spray them with weed killer, they are those we speak of!! The lib dems are the SAME here in the US, they seem extremely agitated by anything traditional or decent. As I posted on another thread, these people are not limited or defined by a particular country, they are an international "species"!
That said; I agree the Lib Dems are subverting common morals. Note: If someone injects here "well, what exactly is a common moral?", kick them in the nuts and spray them with weed killer, they are those we speak of!! The lib dems are the SAME here in the US, they seem extremely agitated by anything traditional or decent. As I posted on another thread, these people are not limited or defined by a particular country, they are an international "species"!
love machine said:
What is the most frustrating are the amount of orange Lib Dem signs. THEY ARE WASTING THEIR BLOODY VOTES AND IT MAKES ME REALLY CROSS. WE NEED TO JUST FORGET THE BLOODY LIB DEMS AND CONCENT....oh
Eh? There are constituencies (eg Oxford East) where it's a straight fight between Lib Dems and Labour. You think people who want to get rid of Labour should still vote tory there?
<controvertial hat>
Besides, the lib dems are the only party that says anything different. Vote Blair Tory, or Vote Howard Tory? What's the difference?
</controvertial hat>
Duncan23 said:
What is the most frustrating are the amount of orange Lib Dem signs. THEY ARE WASTING THEIR BLOODY VOTES AND IT MAKES ME REALLY CROSS. WE NEED TO JUST FORGET THE BLOODY LIB DEMS AND CONCENT....oh
Eh? There are constituencies (eg Oxford East) where it's a straight fight between Lib Dems and Labour. You think people who want to get rid of Labour should still vote tory there?
<controvertial hat>
Besides, the lib dems are the only party that says anything different. Vote Blair Tory, or Vote Howard Tory? What's the difference?
</controvertial hat>
The Lib Dems are a left wing party-so to say that they are more different to a centre left government than the Tories is bizarre.
jimbeaux said:
The lib dems are the SAME here in the US, they seem extremely agitated by anything traditional or decent. As I posted on another thread, these people are not limited or defined by a particular country, they are an international "species"!
There's a difference between useful tradition and harmful prejudice. At the end of the day, who do you want deciding what's moral and decent decent, the government?!? I'd never trust my fellow politicians with that. Ever. They're a worthless bunch of lying, cheating, drainsucking scumbags and not a single one could resist the slightest temptation.
-chaparral, liberal Democratic politician.
>> Edited by chaparral on Saturday 16th April 21:16
>> Edited by chaparral on Saturday 16th April 21:19
chaparral said:
jimbeaux said:
The lib dems are the SAME here in the US, they seem extremely agitated by anything traditional or decent. As I posted on another thread, these people are not limited or defined by a particular country, they are an international "species"!
There's a difference between useful tradition and harmful prejudice. At the end of the day, who do you want deciding what's moral and decent decent, the government?!? I'd never trust my fellow politicians with that. Ever. They're a worthless bunch of lying, cheating, drainsucking scumbags and not a single one could resist the slightest temptation.
-chaparral, liberal Democratic politician.
>> Edited by chaparral on Saturday 16th April 21:16
>> Edited by chaparral on Saturday 16th April 21:19
Come on Chaparral...tell me how you really feel!!
>> Edited by jimbeaux on Sunday 17th April 18:39
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