Make poverty History
Discussion
who of you are supporting this?????
I was sickened today to read about a mother willing to sell an eye to pay for things for her child....
This has got to stop[ right now.
we need to put things in place to stop unwanted pregnancy in the third world.we need to educate these people,and support them.
I feel so humble and utterley sick to read this.
Imagine not being able to provide for your child.
and having to sell a body part to fund it.
(prostitution an exception)!!!!!!!!!!!
we live in a civilized western world. we are part of a global community,and no child from anywhere should ever be made to suffer in this way.
If you have not taken part in this venture then please join up now have a voice make a difference.
If we all join up we CAN make a difference.
More children die on a daily basis than you could every imagine ...
I was sickened today to read about a mother willing to sell an eye to pay for things for her child....
This has got to stop[ right now.
we need to put things in place to stop unwanted pregnancy in the third world.we need to educate these people,and support them.
I feel so humble and utterley sick to read this.
Imagine not being able to provide for your child.
and having to sell a body part to fund it.
(prostitution an exception)!!!!!!!!!!!
we live in a civilized western world. we are part of a global community,and no child from anywhere should ever be made to suffer in this way.
If you have not taken part in this venture then please join up now have a voice make a difference.
If we all join up we CAN make a difference.
More children die on a daily basis than you could every imagine ...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
But do we really need the money back? That's the question.
IMO, instead of demanding debt repayment, we should cancel it and let these countries develop. As they develop, we'll benefit from them anyway - the money will just take longer, but at least it will go to a good cause first.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Well that's largely a question of international policing isn't it. IMO, if we can storm into Iraq and depose Saddam Hussein, we can do the same to Mugabe in Zimbabwe. It's the fact that we don't that raises the question - why did we go into Iraq exactly.
I know what you're saying, but I don't see why that's no excuse not to give to charity. I give £100 a year to Save The Children, simply because I know it goes directly on aid supplies to help the victims of situations like this.
The international community has to solve the problem, but that really is no excuse to turn your back on the whole thing.
I agree it's a bit heartless to stand by and watch all the suffering, but what to do is the big question.
They were just saying on the telly that people lobbied for debt relief to Gahna. We granted 27 million in debt relief, and in the same week the Ghanaian leader bought himself a 26 Million pound private jet.
What can one do. If we go to war on them, to oust their governments, it's just a return to empire. If we go into their schools, we are waging psychological warfare.
There really aren't any easy answers to these questions.
Edited to add;
It could cost us an awful lot more than the face value of the aid to solve the problems properly.
If you ask me, we should sort out our own corruption problems before we try to sort out those of others. I say this with one caveat. When another countries corruption problem threatens to damage us, their business naturally becomes our business.
>> Edited by dilbert on Tuesday 26th April 00:43
They were just saying on the telly that people lobbied for debt relief to Gahna. We granted 27 million in debt relief, and in the same week the Ghanaian leader bought himself a 26 Million pound private jet.
What can one do. If we go to war on them, to oust their governments, it's just a return to empire. If we go into their schools, we are waging psychological warfare.
There really aren't any easy answers to these questions.
Edited to add;
It could cost us an awful lot more than the face value of the aid to solve the problems properly.
If you ask me, we should sort out our own corruption problems before we try to sort out those of others. I say this with one caveat. When another countries corruption problem threatens to damage us, their business naturally becomes our business.
>> Edited by dilbert on Tuesday 26th April 00:43
What I'm saying is that we need to deal with the corrupt governments, but cancelling the debt would surely be a good place to start once the dictators on the take had been weeded out. There needs to be some decisive action, and that does need to come from governments.
However, I fail to see why third world debt needs to be upheld. It's not like the developed countries are making anythink out of it anyway, and it's only draining the financial resources of the third world further and encouraging the corruption.
Agree that actions needs to begin politically though.
However, I fail to see why third world debt needs to be upheld. It's not like the developed countries are making anythink out of it anyway, and it's only draining the financial resources of the third world further and encouraging the corruption.
Agree that actions needs to begin politically though.
Twincam16 said:
What I'm saying is that we need to deal with the corrupt governments, but cancelling the debt would surely be a good place to start once the dictators on the take had been weeded out. There needs to be some decisive action, and that does need to come from governments.
However, I fail to see why third world debt needs to be upheld. It's not like the developed countries are making anythink out of it anyway, and it's only draining the financial resources of the third world further and encouraging the corruption.
Agree that actions needs to begin politically though.
But how are you to sort out their corruption? Sanctions aren't going to work. Even if you did make sanctions, the Chineese would sell them what they cant get from the Civilised word.
dilbert said:
What I'm saying is that we need to deal with the corrupt governments, but cancelling the debt would surely be a good place to start once the dictators on the take had been weeded out. There needs to be some decisive action, and that does need to come from governments.
However, I fail to see why third world debt needs to be upheld. It's not like the developed countries are making anythink out of it anyway, and it's only draining the financial resources of the third world further and encouraging the corruption.
Agree that actions needs to begin politically though.
But how are you to sort out their corruption? Sanctions aren't going to work. Even if you did make sanctions, the Chineese would sell them what they cant get from the Civilised word.
Simple - the UN needs balls. Then you could put some conviction behind the International Court of Human Rights. Secret investigators in the country, gather sufficient evidence, trials against the corrupt ministers involved, pick them off one by one and install people who actually represent the populace.
Goodnight all.
Twincam16 said:
What I'm saying is that we need to deal with the corrupt governments, but cancelling the debt would surely be a good place to start once the dictators on the take had been weeded out. There needs to be some decisive action, and that does need to come from governments.
However, I fail to see why third world debt needs to be upheld. It's not like the developed countries are making anythink out of it anyway, and it's only draining the financial resources of the third world further and encouraging the corruption.
Agree that actions needs to begin politically though.
As ever V8, I agree.
It's horrible for me sitting here now knowing that I'm soon going to be tucked up in my nice warm bed and there are literally thousands starving. I really want to help these people out I really do but having lived near Zimbabwe for a while I know just how much corruption resides in these nations.
We need to get rid of the corruption first then we can talk (very seriously) about aid. If we have a stable government then this could even attract business investment.
parrot of doom said:
One of the best things that Europe could do would be to eliminate farming subsidies tbh, and lose the silly ban on genetically modified foods.
I don't mind if you do. I think though that if you do that, it'll be cheaper to buy our grain/cotton/bananas from the third world. Because the third world is emergent and over populated, the process will be highly efficient, and we'll get dead cheap food for about eight years......
At which point their weak soils won't be able to grow crops any longer, and not only will Africa be more desertified, but the famines will be greater.
If you ask me, Africa should concentrate on having a population that it is possible to support indiginously. This is after all why nature causes the country to be disease ridden.
You are all correct by saying clean up the corrupt governments of these nations before giving aid. I would be all for forgiving debt if it is only once per nation and actually leads to something good. The UN is good at organizing and delivering aid. However, they do so in corrupt environments where much of the help finds its way into the warlord's pockets. If the UN would back up their endless(and toothless)resolutions, they could get more bang for their buck...or rather...more lives to the loaves. I sincerely believe that people's charity is abundant, there just needs to be better "delivery vehicles" to earn their trust.
I for one suspect that the UN itsself is at least as corrupt as our own government, if not some of the third world countries.
Short of a "peoples revolt", I don't think there's much that can be done.
Sure, if Joe Average were wealthy enough to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted, I think there'd be an awful lot of people going over there to dig wells, build schools and hospitals, and educate their young.
As it is Joe Average has to work bloomin hard just to secure a comfortable life for himself, let alone anyone else.
The role of state is to co-ordinate the activities of all Joe Average's in everyones interest. The only direct action it can take is to invade, obviously this is problematic.
We may consider ourselves wealthy, but in my opinion I don't think that Joe Average is all that wealthy, and until he is he can't do anything. When we see people on the telly suffering, I think we miss the practical difference.
It's one thing to get an image through the air. It's a different thing to profit by being the agent of good for the third world. It's ANOTHER THING ALTOGETHER to physically get just a fraction of the western lifestyle a third of the way around the globe.
It's virtually impossible to sustain.
Short of a "peoples revolt", I don't think there's much that can be done.
Sure, if Joe Average were wealthy enough to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted, I think there'd be an awful lot of people going over there to dig wells, build schools and hospitals, and educate their young.
As it is Joe Average has to work bloomin hard just to secure a comfortable life for himself, let alone anyone else.
The role of state is to co-ordinate the activities of all Joe Average's in everyones interest. The only direct action it can take is to invade, obviously this is problematic.
We may consider ourselves wealthy, but in my opinion I don't think that Joe Average is all that wealthy, and until he is he can't do anything. When we see people on the telly suffering, I think we miss the practical difference.
It's one thing to get an image through the air. It's a different thing to profit by being the agent of good for the third world. It's ANOTHER THING ALTOGETHER to physically get just a fraction of the western lifestyle a third of the way around the globe.
It's virtually impossible to sustain.
I might also add.
Whilst we can all receive images sent back from third world countries (that might as well have read mars). It's difficult to support them for that reason.
There really is no excuse for us selling arms to the third world countries. I think and believe, it's worth us developing our own armed forces such that we can stand in the way of other developed nations who try to sell arms to the third world.
Whilst I'm no particular fan of the US, it might just be that this ideology is why the US have umpteen Nuclear aircraft carriers. What I can't figure is why everybody thinks of them as warmongers.
Edited to add;
But whatever anyone says, I'm sure Tony lied.
>> Edited by dilbert on Tuesday 26th April 02:16
Whilst we can all receive images sent back from third world countries (that might as well have read mars). It's difficult to support them for that reason.
There really is no excuse for us selling arms to the third world countries. I think and believe, it's worth us developing our own armed forces such that we can stand in the way of other developed nations who try to sell arms to the third world.
Whilst I'm no particular fan of the US, it might just be that this ideology is why the US have umpteen Nuclear aircraft carriers. What I can't figure is why everybody thinks of them as warmongers.
Edited to add;
But whatever anyone says, I'm sure Tony lied.
>> Edited by dilbert on Tuesday 26th April 02:16
Its simply not possible to do anything about this. As has already been said most people cant even afford to gain their own footing in life for themselves and their family. How can you expect them to do anything more than perhaps they do now. This has been ongoing for centuries, the only thing to have changed is that we see more of it now due to media attention. People in the UK have been programmed in recent years to feel guilt where before there was none and to be honest im not so sure that many people in the UK give a shit. If they cant sort themselves out why should we help them? We dont intervene in the animal kingdom so why should we do so for africans? They are presumed to be equal to us and this is why some people feel guilty. If they are equal to us why in thousands of years have they created nothing for themselves let alone the rest of the world.
Yours Truly
Robert Kilroy-Silk
Yours Truly
Robert Kilroy-Silk
It's really unfortunate that poverty exists. This is why I give my time to help in a food bank to work to stop the low of income become malnourished.
My issue with Africa is that (huge generalisation) many of the countries are extremely rich in minerals and food commodities, yet within the wealthy countries the leaders spend money on arms, planes, cars and needless extravagancies, whislt their poor are in dire straits and they wage war on their own people. You also see countries hit with dire weather conditions yet their neighbours do little of use to help out.
That means the responsibility for humanitarian effort is tranferred to the west. But then we get ideas above our station, try to lend them money so they can spend it on those most in need and the leeches in power suck all the money away from the aid funds and spend it on waging war and put the rest in their Swiss bank accounts.
So the way I feel about it is this - I'll put my time effort and money into charities where I see that the waste is minimal, and not into countries where the leaders are wasting the cash. I think that the countries shouldn't be let off debt, but sell tangible equity in the resources they have in return for the cash. And in future they shouldn't be loaned money - they should sell their assets or accept donations or managed donations by foreign governments.
A loan is a loan and a gift is a gift, but a loan should not turn into a gift. That's defrauding the taxpayer.
My issue with Africa is that (huge generalisation) many of the countries are extremely rich in minerals and food commodities, yet within the wealthy countries the leaders spend money on arms, planes, cars and needless extravagancies, whislt their poor are in dire straits and they wage war on their own people. You also see countries hit with dire weather conditions yet their neighbours do little of use to help out.
That means the responsibility for humanitarian effort is tranferred to the west. But then we get ideas above our station, try to lend them money so they can spend it on those most in need and the leeches in power suck all the money away from the aid funds and spend it on waging war and put the rest in their Swiss bank accounts.
So the way I feel about it is this - I'll put my time effort and money into charities where I see that the waste is minimal, and not into countries where the leaders are wasting the cash. I think that the countries shouldn't be let off debt, but sell tangible equity in the resources they have in return for the cash. And in future they shouldn't be loaned money - they should sell their assets or accept donations or managed donations by foreign governments.
A loan is a loan and a gift is a gift, but a loan should not turn into a gift. That's defrauding the taxpayer.
GavinPearson said:
So the way I feel about it is this - I'll put my time effort and money into charities where I see that the waste is minimal, and not into countries where the leaders are wasting the cash. I think that the countries shouldn't be let off debt, but sell tangible equity in the resources they have in return for the cash. And in future they shouldn't be loaned money - they should sell their assets or accept donations or managed donations by foreign governments.
A loan is a loan and a gift is a gift, but a loan should not turn into a gift. That's defrauding the taxpayer.
Good thinking. I *mostly* agree with you...
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