Give 16/17 yrs old the vote
Discussion
I've just seen that the Electoral Reform Society want the voting age lowered to 16 - they say that this will give the vote to around 1.7m 16/17yr olds who are alienated from the political scene.
My initial feeling was that this another ruse to get even more Left-wing educated people with no real experience of the working world to vote labour.
How can 16/17yrs old just out of school weigh up the facts that apply to working people struggling to balance their wage packets against ever increasing demands on them?.
If Blair gets his way and has 50% of 16/17yr olds going into further education, it means they're even further away from real life.
Piccy mate
My initial feeling was that this another ruse to get even more Left-wing educated people with no real experience of the working world to vote labour.
How can 16/17yrs old just out of school weigh up the facts that apply to working people struggling to balance their wage packets against ever increasing demands on them?.
If Blair gets his way and has 50% of 16/17yr olds going into further education, it means they're even further away from real life.
Piccy mate
As someone who was politically active from age 14.
Ok I admit it I was a Young Tory back then giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote sounds good.
Interesting that when people argue against lowering the voting age the same arguments that were used against Women voting get brought up.
Mind you as 50% of over 18 s can not be bothered to vote I doubt it would really make much difference to Election results.
Ok I admit it I was a Young Tory back then giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote sounds good.
Interesting that when people argue against lowering the voting age the same arguments that were used against Women voting get brought up.
Mind you as 50% of over 18 s can not be bothered to vote I doubt it would really make much difference to Election results.
Yep, completely ridiculous. I don't have have much faith in the ability of 16-17 yr olds to make an informed decision (on the whole). Even some of the professional people I work with are totally oblivious to any of the policies presented by the main parties.
When I asked a colleague why she was voting Tory, she replied, "'Cos I live with my parents and they are conservative. So I'll vote for 'em too, innit. I'm sure when I move out, I'll have my own views."
She's in her mid-20s and is a qualified insurance broker in the City.
God help this country.
When I asked a colleague why she was voting Tory, she replied, "'Cos I live with my parents and they are conservative. So I'll vote for 'em too, innit. I'm sure when I move out, I'll have my own views."
She's in her mid-20s and is a qualified insurance broker in the City.
God help this country.
john75 said:
Interesting that when people argue against lowering the voting age the same arguments that were used against Women voting get brought up.
But was that a good idea-we don't want to worry their pretty little heads with politics after all.
Only joking(before I receive a beating)
They are completely different issues-the human body grows until the person reaches adulthood, over that time the person also matures emotionally-by your reasoning why not give the vote to 2 year olds.
We need some arbitrary definition of adulthood-and 18 seems OK to me.
At 16 I was a communist. At 17 I believed everything the Liberal Democrats said and hated the Tories because my parents told me to without listening to a word they said.
The vast majority of 16 year olds have never had a job, never paid tax and are still in school. Disregard the 'you can fight for your country' stuff - you can join the army but there's 2/3 years solid training before you end up on active service. Yes, at 16 you can have sex and you can get married but, come on - how many happy couples with kids and jobs are there at 16? Yes, you can get a job but the chances are you still live with your parents, you won't drive, you'll be on a much lower salary/tax rate to everyone else.
16/17 is a short 'induction' to the adult world. In fact I'd agree that there are few properly 'responsible' adults under 21.
Voting age 18 for all - it was calculated and put there for a reason. Why have we forgotten?
The vast majority of 16 year olds have never had a job, never paid tax and are still in school. Disregard the 'you can fight for your country' stuff - you can join the army but there's 2/3 years solid training before you end up on active service. Yes, at 16 you can have sex and you can get married but, come on - how many happy couples with kids and jobs are there at 16? Yes, you can get a job but the chances are you still live with your parents, you won't drive, you'll be on a much lower salary/tax rate to everyone else.
16/17 is a short 'induction' to the adult world. In fact I'd agree that there are few properly 'responsible' adults under 21.
Voting age 18 for all - it was calculated and put there for a reason. Why have we forgotten?
I agree the problem is that we all have different experinces and intelligence levels and thus mature at different ages.
They are some 45 year olds who I can think of who should not really be driving because they are to immature whilst sometimes you get a kid of 15 or so who through one reason or another is real mature.
They are some 45 year olds who I can think of who should not really be driving because they are to immature whilst sometimes you get a kid of 15 or so who through one reason or another is real mature.
beanbag said:
Also....my voting voice: Vote for the strongest opposition to labour in your area!!!!
Ah, you've read my posts on the VOTE Conservative thread!
Wakefield Councillors
Labour 44, Conservatives 10, Lib Dems 3 also rans 6
Wakefield MP Labour: 2001 result 49.9% of the vote, Conservative 30.6%, Lib-dems 12.4%, also rans 7.1%
Hmm, really strong chance of the Strongest opposition to the Labour MP getting in! Hence no real reason to bother!
Piccy mate
Piccy mate said:
Also....my voting voice: Vote for the strongest opposition to labour in your area!!!!
Ah, you've read my posts on the VOTE Conservative thread!
Wakefield Councillors
Labour 44, Conservatives 10, Lib Dems 3 also rans 6
Wakefield MP Labour: 2001 result 49.9% of the vote, Conservative 30.6%, Lib-dems 12.4%, also rans 7.1%
Hmm, really strong chance of the Strongest opposition to the Labour MP getting in! Hence no real reason to bother!
Piccy mate
If you don't vote then nothing can happen. If everyone has that same opinion, Labour will have a landslide victory which is a very sad thought.
EVERYONE should vote and make sure labour loose as much of their majority as possible.
Face the facts - Much as I'd rather vote Tory, a 10.5% (or greater - to be really effective) swing in their favour just ain't gonna happen. At best you'll reduce the Labour majority, but at the end of the day, those smug bastards are still going to be sitting pretty in the Houses of Parliament.
Who was it said that democracy exists only on polling day - after that you all do as you're told?
Nope, this country lost its way politically in few years prior to 1997 and will be years before it recovers. People will get used to the idea of a permanent Labour Government and the spin they put out will nullify any other party. There is no effective opposition these days that stands a chance of winning the public over.
Until the Tories get a grip of themselves and start laying hard facts down instead of pledges, then that's the future for the political landscape for many years hence.
I've been a Conservative all my voting life but, at the age of 60, I despair of ever seeing a Tory Government again.
Piccy mate
>> Edited by Piccy mate on Wednesday 4th May 11:27
Who was it said that democracy exists only on polling day - after that you all do as you're told?
Nope, this country lost its way politically in few years prior to 1997 and will be years before it recovers. People will get used to the idea of a permanent Labour Government and the spin they put out will nullify any other party. There is no effective opposition these days that stands a chance of winning the public over.
Until the Tories get a grip of themselves and start laying hard facts down instead of pledges, then that's the future for the political landscape for many years hence.
I've been a Conservative all my voting life but, at the age of 60, I despair of ever seeing a Tory Government again.
Piccy mate
>> Edited by Piccy mate on Wednesday 4th May 11:27
I reckon the voting age should be raised to 22, for the simple reason that everyone I was at university with was spouting nonsense, either far left or liberal. There is no place in politics for a academic/eutopian approach whatsoever, it takes some people a few years to shake this ivory towers nonsense off. Also people in the public sector should be denied the vote as they're too bloody liberal as well.
love machine said:
I reckon the voting age should be raised to 22, for the simple reason that everyone I was at university with was spouting nonsense, either far left or liberal. There is no place in politics for a academic/eutopian approach whatsoever, it takes some people a few years to shake this ivory towers nonsense off. Also people in the public sector should be denied the vote as they're too bloody liberal as well.
LOL
As a University Employee, does that mean you'll deny me the vote?
My thoughts were to restrict voting rights to those over 25, paying income tax and in gainful employment.
Oh that last bit rules me out!
Piccy mate
>> Edited by Piccy mate on Wednesday 4th May 11:41
lanciachris said:
I have no objection to this idea because if nothing else, you still have your idealism and not too corrupted by bitter experience at that age and it certainly wouldnt hurt to have people who werent afraid to ask 'well why isnt it done this way' sort of questions.
I don't think they'd be uncorrupted and idealistic - know what 16/17 y/o kids are like these days?
No, they're opportunists who are also naive enough to be exploited very easily by carefully aimed government policy. It'll be like designer label advertising - kids will vote for 'free' stuff not knowing that we'll be paying for it and it's all cynically geared to bumping up their vote.
Also, the kids will vote for whoever gave them it. The Tories and Labour don't want to give it to them, so the Liberal Democrats will have a clean sweep. They always win in 'youth' elections because they appeal to people who haven't a clue..
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