West Lothian question again.
Discussion
limpsfield said:
Are we going for the world record for number of individual whinging election threads today?
Or is it just in tribute to Mr Blair - it's his birthday today and he's 52. Still got all his own teeth
I'll happily extract them for him.
THe reason why we have so many "whinging" threads is that we have a bent political system that favours a party who subjugate many of the people of England. How difficult can that be to understand?
limpsfield said:
THe reason why we have so many "whinging" threads is that we have a bent political system that favours a party who subjugate many of the people of England. How difficult can that be to understand?
You missed "imho" off the end.
Absolutely no need to qualify this with opinion. Face facts:
Labour have 36% of the vote, and 353 seats.
Tories get 33% of the vote, and 195 seats.
Average number of votes to select a labour MP = 16,000
Average number of votes to select a Conservative MP - 22,000
English voters have to subsidise Welsh Assembly and Scottish Parliament, from which they are debarred.
Labour majority 66. Labour seats in Scotland and Wales 70. Scottish and Welsh MPs vote on English parliamentary matters.
I think it is a matter of time before there is a major expression of anger in England against this transparent subjugation.
limpsfield said:
So you are indifferent to constitutional principle and having a fair electoral system.
I didn't say that - I said are we going for the world record for whinging threads.
You are obviously not thinking what I am thinking...hang on, that rings a bell
It might be considered a whingeing thread-but where else in the Western world do you have such a dogs breakfast of a constitution-a situation Labour created.
JagLover said:
Fascinating fact on BBC website
'Has anyone realised that Labour have lost the popular vote in England? (Labour on 7,959,919 and Conservative on 7,986,393). A Tory victory! With devolution, this means Labour do not have a popular or democratic mandate to govern England.'
Yeah, but they still won - ner ner ner ner ner...
(that's the lunch time Stellas typing)
JagLover said:
Labour has 70 seats in Scotland and Wales. This is the majority it has in the House of Commons to impose legislation on the country.
Many of the issues these MP's will vote on effect only England-where is the democracy?.
Then why did the Tories oppose Devolution? why have we no "English" parliament? Westminster is a "National" parliament with ALL British MP's sitting.
JagLover said:
Fascinating fact on BBC website
'Has anyone realised that Labour have lost the popular vote in England? (Labour on 7,959,919 and Conservative on 7,986,393). A Tory victory! With devolution, this means Labour do not have a popular or democratic mandate to govern England.'
Then why do the Tories oppose "proportional representation?" Surely, as you say, it's in their interests. Will they now: "change their minds"?
"It might be considered a whingeing thread-but where else in the Western world do you have such a dogs breakfast of a constitution-a situation Labour created."
Exactly. So don't go blaming the Scots (in general) pick your marks more carefully.
e.g. Like how many constituencies have had a boundary change prior to this election? Mr Prescott??
Cheers
MoJo.
Exactly. So don't go blaming the Scots (in general) pick your marks more carefully.
e.g. Like how many constituencies have had a boundary change prior to this election? Mr Prescott??
Cheers
MoJo.
8Pack said:
JagLover said:
Labour has 70 seats in Scotland and Wales. This is the majority it has in the House of Commons to impose legislation on the country.
Many of the issues these MP's will vote on effect only England-where is the democracy?.
Then why did the Tories oppose Devolution? why have we no "English" parliament? Westminster is a "National" parliament with ALL British MP's sitting.
Conservatives opposed devolution because they saw it as leading to the break-up of the Union and an expensive imposition on the taxpayer. Quite frankly, in the cold light of day, I wish we'd now just let Scotland have full independence and cut the apron strings. At least then we wouldn't continue to subsidise a nation of people who largely take the piss.
And we could wave the economic migrants through to them, in much the same way as the French do to us!
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Friday 6th May 15:16
8Pack said:
Then why did the Tories oppose Devolution? why have we no "English" parliament? Westminster is a "National" parliament with ALL British MP's sitting.
We have no English parliament because Labour's approach to constitutional reform is determined by political expediency rather than principle.
Given devolution (which I fully support) we need one of three things.
1, Powerful regional assemblies with identical powers to the Scottish parliament.
2. An English parliament (ditto)
3. Simplest, only English MP's can vote on matters which only affect England.
The current situation is a travesty-and makes British democracy a laughing stock.
If the system is obviously so bad, then why didn't the glorious tories change it at some point in their 18(?) years of power?
This all smacks to me of lack of grace in losing (which considering the regularity they have been doing it recently, you would have thought the Tories would be as good at it as Labour were in the eighties), It is like for example, Alex Ferguson complaining when one of his football kicking chappies has his goal disallowed cos he was offside, and Fergie saying he always thought the offside rule was ridiculous, so the goal should be allowed.
The rules are what they are and everyone knew them before playing the game
Labour won
Game over for four more years
This all smacks to me of lack of grace in losing (which considering the regularity they have been doing it recently, you would have thought the Tories would be as good at it as Labour were in the eighties), It is like for example, Alex Ferguson complaining when one of his football kicking chappies has his goal disallowed cos he was offside, and Fergie saying he always thought the offside rule was ridiculous, so the goal should be allowed.
The rules are what they are and everyone knew them before playing the game
Labour won
Game over for four more years
limpsfield said:
If the system is obviously so bad, then why didn't the glorious tories change it at some point in their 18(?) years of power?
The Tories didn't set up parliments in Scotland and Wales, so they had no need to set up similar institutions in England.
Do you regard it is acceptable that policies that affect England are decided by MP's from areas where the policies do not apply?.
JagLover said:
Do you regard it is acceptable that policies that affect England are decided by MP's from areas where the policies do not apply?.
To be honest, yes because they are the Uk Parliament and you have to be sensible about these things. I live in Surrey - if I take this to an extreme, you could argue what right has some MP from Essex or Cheshire got to be discussing how much money is going to be spent on house or roadbuilding in my neck of the woods? If this was the case, the witless feckers would get even less done than they do at the moment
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