Discussion
Bob Gelscruff has unveiled plans for a repeat of 1985's Live Aid concert, called Live 8, to highlight the ongoing problem of global poverty and debt.
Anybody interested in going and/or did you go to the last one?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/4594865.stm
>> Edited by lazyitus on Wednesday 1st June 09:22
Anybody interested in going and/or did you go to the last one?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/4594865.stm
>> Edited by lazyitus on Wednesday 1st June 09:22
lazyitus said:
Bob Gelscruff has unveiled plans for a repeat of 1985's Live Aid concert, called Live 8, to highlight the ongoing problem of global poverty and debt.
Anybody interested in going and/or did you go to the last one?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/4594865.stm
Misguided at best.
More likely harmful.
Sounds like its more to do with leaning on the richer countries to cancel 3rd world debt. Which seems a worthy cause until you realise that the state many of the 3rd world countries are in is more to do with their political situation. Huge debt is merely a symptom of this. By releasing them from debt you improve their economic situation so that they can buy more AK47s, Hawk jets etc. Until action is taken to install a free, democratic government into the worst affected countries you're throwing good money after bad imho.
burnt said:
Misguided at best.
More likely harmful.
Explain please? or is this an attempt to create another topical debate on PH.
It's timed and named to bring attention to the G8 summit to be held in Scotland around the same time. Sir Bob wants to put pressure on the summit attendees to cancel 3rd world debt, give them more money, etc., etc.
I think bruciebabe is saying it's not the way to put across a political message and the vast majority of people going only want to see the bands play, they don't want to be part of a protest.
Throwing money at Africa or cancelling debt will never help Africa because it mis identifies what the problems are. Africa is now worse off than it was at the end of colonialism despite the West throwing hundreds of billions of taxpayers money at the "problem" over the intervening decades. There are two problems in Africa, the first and biggest is the governing class. Almost without exception they are greedy, venal, corrupt and incompetent to the point where in many African countries the simplest of everyday tasks involves greasing one palm or another. The second problem is education. Not of the very rich elite, but of the masses. So that they become capable of becoming part of the world's workforce instead of just scratching for a subsistence living.
Food aid is also bad. All it does is enable people to breed, increasing the population, making it worse next time.
The only aid we should give to Africa is education. To the ruling classes so they govern better and to the masses to increase their economic value.
As for Bob Geldof, he is a scruffy, foul mouthed egotist and should be ignored.
Food aid is also bad. All it does is enable people to breed, increasing the population, making it worse next time.
The only aid we should give to Africa is education. To the ruling classes so they govern better and to the masses to increase their economic value.
As for Bob Geldof, he is a scruffy, foul mouthed egotist and should be ignored.
Uhhhh.... actually there's at lots of things besides education that we can do... although I agree its probably the most important thing... other examples might include, infrastructure development, sharing of land mangement and farming expertise, more appropriate global trading rules, support for HIV/AIDS education and treament programmes... etc etc. As humans we've come along from accepting darwinism a force to be blindly bowed before.
The greed and corruption of some african leaders is not enough of an excuse of the rest of us to say "ah well
'em"... Unless you're the kind of person who'd walk past a starving person, eating your burger and say "Well, natural selection at work.. jolly good"
The greed and corruption of some african leaders is not enough of an excuse of the rest of us to say "ah well
'em"... Unless you're the kind of person who'd walk past a starving person, eating your burger and say "Well, natural selection at work.. jolly good" Well Said Brucie
I can see the case for well targeted debt relief aimed at countries which are well run, but not blanket debt relief.
Much of aid policy seems to be aimed at creating the same welfare dependency in the 3rd world that we see among the non-working classes in the west.
Aid that improves/creates education, training and jobs is to be welcomed; other types of aid should be looked at very sceptically.
Oh, as a side note, just because someone can sing a half decent song does not make them a source of wisdom on how to deal with the world's problems.
I can see the case for well targeted debt relief aimed at countries which are well run, but not blanket debt relief.
Much of aid policy seems to be aimed at creating the same welfare dependency in the 3rd world that we see among the non-working classes in the west.
Aid that improves/creates education, training and jobs is to be welcomed; other types of aid should be looked at very sceptically.
Oh, as a side note, just because someone can sing a half decent song does not make them a source of wisdom on how to deal with the world's problems.
BONO in the Sunday Times said:
I don't have any real power, but the people I represent do. The reason why polititions let me in the door, and the reason why people will take my call, is because I represent a large constituency of people. I do not control that constituency, but I represent them in a certain sence, even without them asking me too, in the minds of the people whos doors I knock upon.
If it wasn't for Geldoff, Bono et al, who would stand up for the little guy, the tortured, the persequeted, the sick and the dying. We'd all be here, happily tapping way on our keyboards completly unaware of whats going on. Remember, it was'nt until (can't remember the reporters name) went to Africa in '84/5 for the BBC News, did the news of the famine emerge. It is the forceful few who enlighten us and mobilise us. Be it for monetary or intellectual charity.
Live 8 is an awareness campaign. Correct, more needs to be done on the democratic front, but hey, look whats happening in Iraq to install a democracy. Easier said than done. In the meantime, do we just sit back until they all die? Kill each other? Wipe out families, villages, towns, generations?
I for one am quite happy these rockers stand up with my voice. It may not have real power, but it's loud.
up-the-dubs said:
I don't have any real power, but the people I represent do. The reason why polititions let me in the door, and the reason why people will take my call, is because I represent a large constituency of people. I do not control that constituency, but I represent them in a certain sence, even without them asking me too, in the minds of the people whos doors I knock upon.
If it wasn't for Geldoff, Bono et al, who would stand up for the little guy, the tortured, the persequeted, the sick and the dying. We'd all be here, happily tapping way on our keyboards completly unaware of whats going on. Remember, it was'nt until (can't remember the reporters name) went to Africa in '84/5 for the BBC News, did the news of the famine emerge. It is the forceful few who enlighten us and mobilise us. Be it for monetary or intellectual charity.
Live 8 is an awareness campaign. Correct, more needs to be done on the democratic front, but hey, look whats happening in Iraq to install a democracy. Easier said than done. In the meantime, do we just sit back until they all die? Kill each other? Wipe out families, villages, towns, generations?
I for one am quite happy these rockers stand up with my voice. It may not have real power, but it's loud.
Read the Amnesty International annual report.
And take a look at Transpareny International just to see how disgustingly bad these governments are:
[url]www.transparency.org/[/url]
Geldof should have a look at this.
[url]www.transparency.org/[/url]
Geldof should have a look at this.
Another vote for Brucie. I get thoroughly pissed off when half-baked millionaire popstars, champagne socialists etc stand up and shout at me to hand over a few quid to a lost cause in another country thoudands of miles away. They're loaded, I'm not; let them put their money where their big mouths are and leave us mere mortals, facing 50+ stealth taxes, out of it.
bruciebabie said:
bruciebabie said:
Read the Amnesty International annual report.
Why?
Find out who really is tortured and persecuted instead of believing that scruff mouthing off on the telly. It's lemming time again. Just like Princess Di's funeral. I really despair.
Don't bring Di into this. You made some good points, apart from the needless slagging off of Bob Geldoff in the last paragraph. Your post would have stood up much better without the needless vitriol.
I do agree, Africa seems to need education more than anything else.
Sorry. I'm at a loss. There seems a deep resentment here on doing anything to help these people. So it's a rock star, and yes there are plenty of worthy causes that they could be concentrating on, But theres only so much one person can do, and it seems at the moment, not impressing you guys.
I'm not a lemming. I know we can't fix everything. But I'm proud to stand behind people who at least try, and I'm proud to call them my voice.
I'm not a lemming. I know we can't fix everything. But I'm proud to stand behind people who at least try, and I'm proud to call them my voice.
up-the-dubs said:
I'm not a lemming. I know we can't fix everything. But I'm proud to stand behind people who at least try, and I'm proud to call them my voice.
I know that you and others mean well. You believe the status quo can be changed and want to try, and I applaud you for that. But whether I am just more cynical, or have a different perspective, I don't believe that charity will make any meaningful difference. The world order is as it is for good reasons played out over centuries. It can evolve, but only from within, not without.
I find it interesting that the people who seem to get so upset about 'poverty' are newly-rich left-wingers, and not the actual poor.
If I gave £1,000 to a single African mother with 12 children, what would she do with it? What would she spend it on? A ticket to Europe I suspect.
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff