Discussion
I feel very odd now. I've been to the pub and had a few drinks and feel almost guilty for it. I'm carrying on in relative normality but with a constant element of doubt. People died today, for no reason, and while I can say I've not let the terrorists change my pattern I feel I shouldn't be enjoying myself given the context.
I've seen alsorts in my life but not many things have been as huge as today. People killed just for going to work, hours on the phone confirming the health of friends, news broadcasts chilling to the bone marrow. It's just plain horrible.
I work with some Americans who I watched go through 9/11 and never really understood the full gravity. Today my empathy increased infinitely. I feel so violated that I can't actually find the words.
These are sad rimes in a mad world. One can only hope that the people cruelly taken will somehow be justified in the bigger picture, but on the individual level some people are suffering terribly tonight. I feel for them so much, to die of natural causes is horrible, to be murdered is horrific.
I'm struggling to think of a postive context for today. I hope that there works out to be one and we rebuild the Nation's spirit stronger and purer.In the meantime I go to my bed. Safe, sound and alive; a luxury I appreciate.
The irony being I have more faith in my fellow man than ever, having watched us absorb the carnage and deal with it and react to preserve valuable lives in one moment, and yet so much less faith knowing people will kill innocent parties with very little justification and thought for fellow man.
If you or yours were hurt today I feel so deeply for you. It's probably no compensation but there are many in my position. I hope for a better and brighter future where such bloodshed and incorrect evaluation of the value of lives and violent actions are more considered.In the mean time I hope we all get through this period with the minimum of damage and personal loss.
I've seen alsorts in my life but not many things have been as huge as today. People killed just for going to work, hours on the phone confirming the health of friends, news broadcasts chilling to the bone marrow. It's just plain horrible.
I work with some Americans who I watched go through 9/11 and never really understood the full gravity. Today my empathy increased infinitely. I feel so violated that I can't actually find the words.
These are sad rimes in a mad world. One can only hope that the people cruelly taken will somehow be justified in the bigger picture, but on the individual level some people are suffering terribly tonight. I feel for them so much, to die of natural causes is horrible, to be murdered is horrific.
I'm struggling to think of a postive context for today. I hope that there works out to be one and we rebuild the Nation's spirit stronger and purer.In the meantime I go to my bed. Safe, sound and alive; a luxury I appreciate.
The irony being I have more faith in my fellow man than ever, having watched us absorb the carnage and deal with it and react to preserve valuable lives in one moment, and yet so much less faith knowing people will kill innocent parties with very little justification and thought for fellow man.
If you or yours were hurt today I feel so deeply for you. It's probably no compensation but there are many in my position. I hope for a better and brighter future where such bloodshed and incorrect evaluation of the value of lives and violent actions are more considered.In the mean time I hope we all get through this period with the minimum of damage and personal loss.
You are carrying on. There isn't anything wrong with that.
One thing that I've heard over and over today is that we can't let the terrorists win and allow them to terrorise us into shrivelling up into little balls and hiding away from our lives. You, like the rest of us I'm sure, felt grief and anger at the loss of life today. That's human nature. But you haven't totally disrupted your life because of it and that, ultimately, is what the terrorist wants. That's what I think any way.
One thing that I've heard over and over today is that we can't let the terrorists win and allow them to terrorise us into shrivelling up into little balls and hiding away from our lives. You, like the rest of us I'm sure, felt grief and anger at the loss of life today. That's human nature. But you haven't totally disrupted your life because of it and that, ultimately, is what the terrorist wants. That's what I think any way.
DJ111S said:I think you have answered your own question, stick with those thoughts.
I'm struggling to think of a postive context for today.......
The irony being I have more faith in my fellow man than ever, having watched us absorb the carnage and deal with it and react to preserve valuable lives in one moment...
Sleep tight, tomorrow's another day.
A terrible day for sure, for the people of London. As usual, it's always the innocent small man going about his work that gets it in the neck. Let's hope that ALL those injured make it through and recover.
George Gallaway made another powerful speech today in parliament, don't know if you heard it, should be shown again on the "parliament channel" I should think. I can't help but think that he was right, for it was my thoughts exactly when this whole mess started.
Hope you and yours, friends etc, are all safe. And no need for you to feel guilt at being spared, it's just luck of the draw I guess. Life, and London, goes on.
George Gallaway made another powerful speech today in parliament, don't know if you heard it, should be shown again on the "parliament channel" I should think. I can't help but think that he was right, for it was my thoughts exactly when this whole mess started.
Hope you and yours, friends etc, are all safe. And no need for you to feel guilt at being spared, it's just luck of the draw I guess. Life, and London, goes on.
Just got home and spent a while reading all the posts put up today. A day that will stick in peoples minds for ever. I was reading all the threads not sure where to post this morning but here seems as good as any. May I express my heartfelt sorrow to those that died and were injured today. My deepest respect and admiration to not only those on PH offering help and support but to the men and women on the ground, in the streets, in the hospitals and in all the emergancy services.
London is strong. The UK is strong in times of adversity. It has been proved over and over through the years. Through adversity, London stands tall. Like a beacon of freedom, it has never been knocked, never fell to it's knees, never succumed to the forces or persuasions of tyrants. This has been proved true again today. London will rise again, more powerful than ever.
It is an incredible sight, on the tv and over the airwaves, to see a people so resolute and defiant in the face of tradgedy. You guys have every right to be immensly proud. I can only hope and pray that no-one here was directly effected by these attacks. I myself have alot of close friends living in London, and thank God, they're ok.
Stand tall everyone and show these guys who the boss is.
"We will have no truce or parley with you, or the grisly gang who work your wicked will. You do your worst - and we will do our best." - W.S. Churchill, 14th July, 1941
London is strong. The UK is strong in times of adversity. It has been proved over and over through the years. Through adversity, London stands tall. Like a beacon of freedom, it has never been knocked, never fell to it's knees, never succumed to the forces or persuasions of tyrants. This has been proved true again today. London will rise again, more powerful than ever.
It is an incredible sight, on the tv and over the airwaves, to see a people so resolute and defiant in the face of tradgedy. You guys have every right to be immensly proud. I can only hope and pray that no-one here was directly effected by these attacks. I myself have alot of close friends living in London, and thank God, they're ok.
Stand tall everyone and show these guys who the boss is.
"We will have no truce or parley with you, or the grisly gang who work your wicked will. You do your worst - and we will do our best." - W.S. Churchill, 14th July, 1941
People die every day, many through the actions of others. When it happens en masse like this and because of what appears to be the deliberate actions of people intent on random killing it is harder to accept.
Strangely, I feel the same way now as I did when I first saw Saving Private Ryan (ok, it`s a film, but a very good one) - upset at the utter futility of it all.
Fortunately, I live in the sticks and no-one I know was in any way involved, so it will be business as usual for me tomorrow. That`s not to say I have no feelings, and I feel desperately sorry for anyone who`s loved ones did not come home tonight. But life must go on - you cannot change your routine based on "what ifs".
One very small consolation is that the wait is over - hopefully this will be the end of it. It could also have been much,much worse.
Strangely, I feel the same way now as I did when I first saw Saving Private Ryan (ok, it`s a film, but a very good one) - upset at the utter futility of it all.
Fortunately, I live in the sticks and no-one I know was in any way involved, so it will be business as usual for me tomorrow. That`s not to say I have no feelings, and I feel desperately sorry for anyone who`s loved ones did not come home tonight. But life must go on - you cannot change your routine based on "what ifs".
One very small consolation is that the wait is over - hopefully this will be the end of it. It could also have been much,much worse.
I does make you think when it's closer to home. I work in London a fair bit and luckily I wasn't working in Central London this week but on the outskirts.
It's tragic and I feel deeply for anyone who has been affected in anyway by the whole incident. It's pointless, savage and totally un-necessary.
But it's true (as mentioned above) unfortunately, that people die needlessly every hour of every day, alot of the time in far greater quanities than in todays events.
To play devils advocate for a second, how many thousand innocent Iraqis died at needlessly on their way to and from work, at home, shopping etc at the hands of the US and UK forces every day for months ... for (what alot of them consider) no real reason other than Western culture not liking the way their country is being run?
Again I'd like to put my heart out to anyone affected but todays atrocities, we as British never expect anything like this to ever happen in our own land. Unfortunately it happens all to often, all the time throughout the rest of the world.
It's tragic and I feel deeply for anyone who has been affected in anyway by the whole incident. It's pointless, savage and totally un-necessary.
But it's true (as mentioned above) unfortunately, that people die needlessly every hour of every day, alot of the time in far greater quanities than in todays events.
To play devils advocate for a second, how many thousand innocent Iraqis died at needlessly on their way to and from work, at home, shopping etc at the hands of the US and UK forces every day for months ... for (what alot of them consider) no real reason other than Western culture not liking the way their country is being run?
Again I'd like to put my heart out to anyone affected but todays atrocities, we as British never expect anything like this to ever happen in our own land. Unfortunately it happens all to often, all the time throughout the rest of the world.
towman said:
One very small consolation is that the wait is over - hopefully this will be the end of it. It could also have been much,much worse.
I really do hope that you're right Towman, I hestitate to say it here on such an open forum, but, the G8 is NOT yet finished, I'm sure that authorities will be aware that this could go on, maybe elsewhere, as an anti-G8 campaign. Be carefull out there peeps, especially in the cities.
The 8 world leaders have something like 3,000 policemen, a ring of steel and god knows what else around them, we don't!
8Pack said:But we do have the best "bobbies" in the World. And as was proved today, by far the best emergency services.
The 8 world leaders have something like 3,000 policemen, a ring of steel and god knows what else around them, we don't!
One thing which hasn`t been mentioned is the bravery of the Police, Fire and Ambulance personnel who put themselves "in harms way" in order to help others. Hats off to them all.
_dan_ said:
I does make you think when it's closer to home. I work in London a fair bit and luckily I wasn't working in Central London this week but on the outskirts.
It's tragic and I feel deeply for anyone who has been affected in anyway by the whole incident. It's pointless, savage and totally un-necessary.
But it's true (as mentioned above) unfortunately, that people die needlessly every hour of every day, alot of the time in far greater quanities than in todays events.
To play devils advocate for a second, how many thousand innocent Iraqis died at needlessly on their way to and from work, at home, shopping etc at the hands of the US and UK forces every day for months ... for (what alot of them consider) no real reason other than Western culture not liking the way their country is being run?
Again I'd like to put my heart out to anyone affected but todays atrocities, we as British never expect anything like this to ever happen in our own land. Unfortunately it happens all to often, all the time throughout the rest of the world.
Big difference Dan; they were not targeted, London civilians were specifically targeted. I also wager that we have killed nowhere near the amount of Iraqis that were dying at the hands of Saddam. Oh, and don't get me started on the Rape Squads(yes, they existed) sent to communities by Saddam to ravage wives and mothers publicly in order to break the will of his opponets. Please do not compare, to do so is insulting
I realise the difference between war and terrorism, and I wasn't trying to compare todays events to the war, or insult you either. That wasn't my point at all.
I was simply stating the fact that innocent people get killed in a variety of horrible ways throughout the entire world every second of every day, but we never really care or take too much notice until it happens on our doorstep.
I was simply stating the fact that innocent people get killed in a variety of horrible ways throughout the entire world every second of every day, but we never really care or take too much notice until it happens on our doorstep.
todays bombings have been on the cards for some time, tragic though it is, can anyone actually say it came as a total shock?
the day billy liar commited uk troops in iraq/afghanistan we became targets!
its an awful thing to deal with but when you poke a hornets nest you can expect to be stung!
the day billy liar commited uk troops in iraq/afghanistan we became targets!
its an awful thing to deal with but when you poke a hornets nest you can expect to be stung!
_dan_ said:
I realise the difference between war and terrorism, and I wasn't trying to compare todays events to the war, or insult you either. That wasn't my point at all.
I was simply stating the fact that innocent people get killed in a variety of horrible ways throughout the entire world every second of every day, but we never really care or take too much notice until it happens on our doorstep.
Understood; you are correct!
towman said:
The 8 world leaders have something like 3,000 policemen, a ring of steel and god knows what else around them, we don't!
But we do have the best "bobbies" in the World. And as was proved today, by far the best emergency services.
One thing which hasn`t been mentioned is the bravery of the Police, Fire and Ambulance personnel who put themselves "in harms way" in order to help others. Hats off to them all.
Well .....Steve, (You know that I like to have fun with you)
But "other" people have different views, so here, mate, I'll have to differ.. "We" here in this country have TWO different police forces. One that protects the Rich! And one that POLICES the poor.
Policing FOR, or Policing OF, is a very slim line to cross, and is crossed every day here in Britain.
Now, we may argue as to the equality of our system, but! we are NOT perfect as we are led to believe, the Rich get a BETTER response than the POOR in the UK.
The first question that "I" was asked on an attempted burglary was: "What's your job then?" at 3 o'clock in the morning!!!! Stupidly enough,....I told him". Peasant that I am! All my neighbours now get a better response than I do!!
But "society", in Britain, is very, very, deep and has existed for hundreds and hundreds of years with a very secret structure!
v8 westy said:
todays bombings have been on the cards for some time, tragic though it is, can anyone actually say it came as a total shock?
the day billy liar commited uk troops in iraq/afghanistan we became targets!
its an awful thing to deal with but when you poke a hornets nest you can expect to be stung!
What a tiny , enclosed, blinkered world you live in.
US and UK have been targets for decades. Why does the PM always get blamed on this BBS ?
DJ111S said:
I feel very odd now. I've been to the pub and had a few drinks and feel almost guilty for it. I'm carrying on in relative normality but with a constant element of doubt. People died today, for no reason, and while I can say I've not let the terrorists change my pattern I feel I shouldn't be enjoying myself given the context.
I've seen alsorts in my life but not many things have been as huge as today. People killed just for going to work, hours on the phone confirming the health of friends, news broadcasts chilling to the bone marrow. It's just plain horrible.
I work with some Americans who I watched go through 9/11 and never really understood the full gravity. Today my empathy increased infinitely. I feel so violated that I can't actually find the words.
These are sad rimes in a mad world. One can only hope that the people cruelly taken will somehow be justified in the bigger picture, but on the individual level some people are suffering terribly tonight. I feel for them so much, to die of natural causes is horrible, to be murdered is horrific.
I'm struggling to think of a postive context for today. I hope that there works out to be one and we rebuild the Nation's spirit stronger and purer.In the meantime I go to my bed. Safe, sound and alive; a luxury I appreciate.
The irony being I have more faith in my fellow man than ever, having watched us absorb the carnage and deal with it and react to preserve valuable lives in one moment, and yet so much less faith knowing people will kill innocent parties with very little justification and thought for fellow man.
If you or yours were hurt today I feel so deeply for you. It's probably no compensation but there are many in my position. I hope for a better and brighter future where such bloodshed and incorrect evaluation of the value of lives and violent actions are more considered.In the mean time I hope we all get through this period with the minimum of damage and personal loss.
I was born in North West London and lived there for 20 years. I spent much of my formative years riding the tubes to the the usual tourist spots of London, and I still regard it as my home even though I now live near Milton Keynes. When I lived in and played in London, the IRA was a very real and present threat but they didn't stop us.
My brother was on the tube today (none of the stations targeted thank goodness) and I have other friends who still live and work in London and I'm so happy they're all safe. My heart really goes out to EVERYONE who has been affected by yesterdays tragedies. And to those who have been injured, died or lost loved ones, I cannot find the words to express my sorrow.
It's up to all of us who have survived to carry on with our lives. To not feel guilt for still being here and to keep the spirit of freedom alive. Please don't let this act of destruction change the way you live. The people who carried out this callous and cowardly attack did so because they don't agree with our culture, our way of life. They don't believe we should have the freedoms to speak and do in a way that does not limit our boundaries. So in a bid to make us all come around to their way of thinking, they use mindless and unnecessary violence on innocent people.
If we become recluses, or scared to walk around and embrace the advantages given to us in this country, if we put limitations on our own actions through fear, then these bastards have won.
I'd agree with that, I was at a ball last night and although we had a minutes silence in respect, it just didn't feel right that we were there having a jolly good time whilst people had died.
I didn't let it ruin my night, but when sat waiting much later on, it was so peacefully quiet it just makes you think what kind of world we live in. I for one had always believed I was 'safe' in the UK, a stupid thing to believe but I believed it all the same. I think what hit me most was the fact I have been in London 3 times in so many weeks, I just count my lucky stars that I wasn't caught up in it, especially as I was there last week.
I also don't often appreciate living in an everso slightly backward place as Devon - but at times like this, I do. It'll never be a target and it's a very comforting 'safe' feeling, even when our country which used to stand so invincible - is now one of many. Deftinitiely echo whoever said about you 'Not really realising' until it happens on your doorstep.
I think Britain will rise above this, I just hope something is done - if anything. I doubt it, but if you don't have hope, you don't have anything.
I didn't let it ruin my night, but when sat waiting much later on, it was so peacefully quiet it just makes you think what kind of world we live in. I for one had always believed I was 'safe' in the UK, a stupid thing to believe but I believed it all the same. I think what hit me most was the fact I have been in London 3 times in so many weeks, I just count my lucky stars that I wasn't caught up in it, especially as I was there last week.
I also don't often appreciate living in an everso slightly backward place as Devon - but at times like this, I do. It'll never be a target and it's a very comforting 'safe' feeling, even when our country which used to stand so invincible - is now one of many. Deftinitiely echo whoever said about you 'Not really realising' until it happens on your doorstep.
I think Britain will rise above this, I just hope something is done - if anything. I doubt it, but if you don't have hope, you don't have anything.
Felt very strange getting on the tube to Liverpool street this morning. My office is literally right next to the station and can see the trains out my window. Had fortunately already decided to stay in London last night, although the 1.45 min walk to South Kensington has my feet still aching! Got on the central line this morning and it felt very eerie, checking everyone that got on for packages and if they looked shifty. Was glad to get off. Think it will take a while to feel relaxed again on the tubes. It could have been a lot worse though, if I had got to work late yesterday it may have been a different story.
v8 westy said:
todays bombings have been on the cards for some time, tragic though it is, can anyone actually say it came as a total shock? the day billy liar commited uk troops in iraq/afghanistan we became targets!
The day you stop doing something because you might get bombed is the day you succumb to terrorism.
'Pull out of Iraq or we'll bomb you'
'OK'
'Pull out of XYZ country or we'll bomb you'
'OK'
'Release all our prisoners or...'
'OK'
'Send £10M to our friends in ABC country'
'OK'
etc etc.
>> Edited by simpo two on Friday 8th July 11:18
v8 westy said:
todays bombings have been on the cards for some time, tragic though it is, can anyone actually say it came as a total shock? the day billy liar commited uk troops in iraq/afghanistan we became targets!
Can't agree with that completely, I think we've always been a target. The attacks on America were done before any invasion of afghanistan or iraq.
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