Terrorism - Holiday Dilemma
Discussion
Supposing you were booked on a 14 day cruise in October and the destinations included Kusadasi and Antalya in Turkey, Beirut in Lebanon, Port Said and Alexandria in Egypt and Tobruk in Lybia along with a few of the Greek isles... Would the current security situation have you questioning whether or not to change your mind and go somewhere else? I've got two weeks left in which to change my mind. What would you do?
Thanks
Phil.
Thanks
Phil.
In the same boat (no pun intended).
So: Advice please.
I am due to fly out to Egypt in a month to the sunny shores of Sharam El Sheikh.
Unfortunately, as I am sure you are aware, 3 bloody massive car bombs demolished two hotels and the market killing 90+ people at the weekend; right where my hotel is.
For some odd reason me and the misses don’t really want to go any more.
My tour operator, who shall remain unnamed (lets just say they are not going to even be my last choice from now on, never mind my…), say I can cancel but I will lose 50% of the cost of my holiday.
So, in simple terms they make £800 out of a tragedy and loose a customer.
I am NOT happy with his.
To me things have changed rather substantially (sunbathing in the proximity of 90+ recent deaths and the view spoiled by rubble and shrapnel come immediately to mind) and the product is no longer as described. I can’t be bothered to try and get this through to the airhead on the end of the phone at the call centre as they are just peddling the official line.
What the hell can I / we do.
So: Advice please.
I am due to fly out to Egypt in a month to the sunny shores of Sharam El Sheikh.
Unfortunately, as I am sure you are aware, 3 bloody massive car bombs demolished two hotels and the market killing 90+ people at the weekend; right where my hotel is.
For some odd reason me and the misses don’t really want to go any more.
My tour operator, who shall remain unnamed (lets just say they are not going to even be my last choice from now on, never mind my…), say I can cancel but I will lose 50% of the cost of my holiday.
So, in simple terms they make £800 out of a tragedy and loose a customer.
I am NOT happy with his.
Trading Standards said:
If things go wrong before you go on holiday
Sometimes, the tour operator might change important parts of the holiday after you have booked. If the change is a significant one, such as moving you to a different hotel that you are not happy with, or altering the itinerary, or if there is a major change in the flight times, they will probably be in breach of contract.
• You should be given the option to cancel and be given a full refund, if you wish.
• You might want to try to negotiate a change in the booking to another holiday offered by the operator for a similar price.
To me things have changed rather substantially (sunbathing in the proximity of 90+ recent deaths and the view spoiled by rubble and shrapnel come immediately to mind) and the product is no longer as described. I can’t be bothered to try and get this through to the airhead on the end of the phone at the call centre as they are just peddling the official line.
What the hell can I / we do.
I went to Vietnam during the SARS epedemic. Sure I had second thoughts - lot of them.
As it was, the tourist numbers were tiny and I had a great time.
Where would you go instead? London? You've more chance of being blown up there, it would seem.
You need to put the risks in proportion. You still stand far more chance of being killed in your car than by terrorists.
Personally, I wouldn't alter my plans.
As it was, the tourist numbers were tiny and I had a great time.
Where would you go instead? London? You've more chance of being blown up there, it would seem.
You need to put the risks in proportion. You still stand far more chance of being killed in your car than by terrorists.
Personally, I wouldn't alter my plans.
PJLarge
I'm planning a booty call in London this weekend, do you think what's happend will stop me for one second?
Other chap, I think your situation is a little different. Your problem isn't about safety. I'd fight the Travel Agents all the way. The holiday is now substantially different from the one you booked - I plan to go to one of the places which was affected by the 26/12/04 Tsumami possibly Christmas 06/07 but wouldn't have wanted to go there in March this year IYSWIM
Einion Yrth said:
Go, and damn them. We've all got to die sometime, and while I'm in no hurry I am certainly not going to change my way of life because of a perceived risk, everything's dangerous, live your life because (IMHO) it's the only one you are going to get, short or long.
I'm planning a booty call in London this weekend, do you think what's happend will stop me for one second?
Other chap, I think your situation is a little different. Your problem isn't about safety. I'd fight the Travel Agents all the way. The holiday is now substantially different from the one you booked - I plan to go to one of the places which was affected by the 26/12/04 Tsumami possibly Christmas 06/07 but wouldn't have wanted to go there in March this year IYSWIM
If you were really looking forward to seeing these specific places, then go. If all you were looking forward to was a break and are scared then don't.
The chances of being blown up in the places you've mentioned are pretty small - much less so I would've thought than being in any London central Tube station these days. It's certainly FAR safer than walking the streets of Baghdad or a northern African country.
The chances of being blown up in the places you've mentioned are pretty small - much less so I would've thought than being in any London central Tube station these days. It's certainly FAR safer than walking the streets of Baghdad or a northern African country.
Hmmmm... this is always a tricky one.
For starters, sod what trading standards say, tour companies are obliged to abide by the EEC Travel Directive (yup, they get eveywhere, the barstewards!) and to Foreign Office advice.
UNLESS the Foreign Office advice against travel to Egypt then in the eyes of the law they are not obliged to cancel your holiday, Spandexx.
However, they have bu66ered up on the PR front, have they not? In this situation they should really offer to tide your money over to a later date that is mutually convenient.
Yes, the holiday may have "changed" in your view (from a political/"perceived" safety etc etc), but as far as they are concerned the holiday funadamentally hasn't as they can still provide you with the same flights, hotel etc.
I sympathise a great deal; after all it's not your fault, and I would perhaps have doubts as to whether to go or not. But playing Devil's Avocet it's not the tour operators fault either, and I suspect that they will have incurred some costs already.
Not good news for anyone I am afraid...
For starters, sod what trading standards say, tour companies are obliged to abide by the EEC Travel Directive (yup, they get eveywhere, the barstewards!) and to Foreign Office advice.
UNLESS the Foreign Office advice against travel to Egypt then in the eyes of the law they are not obliged to cancel your holiday, Spandexx.
However, they have bu66ered up on the PR front, have they not? In this situation they should really offer to tide your money over to a later date that is mutually convenient.
Yes, the holiday may have "changed" in your view (from a political/"perceived" safety etc etc), but as far as they are concerned the holiday funadamentally hasn't as they can still provide you with the same flights, hotel etc.
I sympathise a great deal; after all it's not your fault, and I would perhaps have doubts as to whether to go or not. But playing Devil's Avocet it's not the tour operators fault either, and I suspect that they will have incurred some costs already.
Not good news for anyone I am afraid...
Caught the end of something on 'Working Lunch' and apparently you have until tonight to cancel and get a full refund. Tomorrow all those rights disappear : 28:30 into program on http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/programmes/working_lunch/default.stm
I would still go if it were me. No point ruining your holiday. But.... you have to be comfortable with that because if you are not then it will just play on your mind until you come home.
The FCO are not advising against travel to Egypt but they are saying that there is a high threat of terrorism (they say that about a lot of places though).
Here is their list of don't go countries and advise against countries but Egypt isn't mentioned at all.
They do advise against parts of Lebanon though.
Security in Sharm has always been quite high and will probably be even higher now.
The FCO are not advising against travel to Egypt but they are saying that there is a high threat of terrorism (they say that about a lot of places though).
Here is their list of don't go countries and advise against countries but Egypt isn't mentioned at all.
They do advise against parts of Lebanon though.
Security in Sharm has always been quite high and will probably be even higher now.
Sharm is one of my favourite holiday destinations, and horrific though these events have been, I see a bit of a parallel with tourism in parts of Asia hit by the Tsunami; after giving them a little while, the best thing you can do is go; it supports the locals (when they are really going to want it), and shows the bombers that they won't win. I would also imagine that security would be beefed up no end.
Bottom line: the g/f and I have been talking about a week or two in Sharm towards the end of the summer; this hasn't changed our thoughts at all. F
k the bombers, and go and enjoy some of the best (and guaranteed) weather and world-class diving within a reasonable length flight from these shores.
Bottom line: the g/f and I have been talking about a week or two in Sharm towards the end of the summer; this hasn't changed our thoughts at all. F
k the bombers, and go and enjoy some of the best (and guaranteed) weather and world-class diving within a reasonable length flight from these shores.Go to Sharm.
The Egyptians are the friendliest bunch of people you'll meet, and they will now be pulling out all the stops to make things right.
The two bombs in Naama Bay were on the Peace Road where they only had to get through light hotel entrace security and a taxi rank with no security at all. The actual roads leading to the centre of Naama are heavily guarded with machine gun clad troops, making the central area (including the beaches) where you'll spend most of your time much safer.
Security will be much tighter now as they cannot afford to lose tourism income. I was in Naama this time last month, and if I was booked to go out next week, I'd still go.
One bit of practical advice I can recommend is to make sure you are in a hotel which is fairly distributed. For instance, the Hilton Sharm Dreams is made up of lots of blocks of rooms, which are mostly a fair old way from the reception area which is going to be the most likely target of any car bomb attempt. I personally wouldn't stay in any single building large hotel complex.
Finally, if you don't already, take the opportunity to learn to dive then you'll be spending most of your time in the calm serenity of a boat, and the Red Sea instead of in around the resort!
The Egyptians are the friendliest bunch of people you'll meet, and they will now be pulling out all the stops to make things right.
The two bombs in Naama Bay were on the Peace Road where they only had to get through light hotel entrace security and a taxi rank with no security at all. The actual roads leading to the centre of Naama are heavily guarded with machine gun clad troops, making the central area (including the beaches) where you'll spend most of your time much safer.
Security will be much tighter now as they cannot afford to lose tourism income. I was in Naama this time last month, and if I was booked to go out next week, I'd still go.
One bit of practical advice I can recommend is to make sure you are in a hotel which is fairly distributed. For instance, the Hilton Sharm Dreams is made up of lots of blocks of rooms, which are mostly a fair old way from the reception area which is going to be the most likely target of any car bomb attempt. I personally wouldn't stay in any single building large hotel complex.
Finally, if you don't already, take the opportunity to learn to dive then you'll be spending most of your time in the calm serenity of a boat, and the Red Sea instead of in around the resort!
PJLarge said:
Supposing you were booked on a 14 day cruise in October and the destinations included Kusadasi and Antalya in Turkey, Beirut in Lebanon, Port Said and Alexandria in Egypt and Tobruk in Lybia along with a few of the Greek isles... Would the current security situation have you questioning whether or not to change your mind and go somewhere else? I've got two weeks left in which to change my mind. What would you do?
Thanks
Phil.
I missed this one and just gave my opinion on the Egypt one.
If I'm honest, Lebanon and Egypt have always had their problems in some way or another recently. This is election year in Egypt and there has been a bit more activity in the last year than usual. On the other hand, a guy at work lives in Alexandria and he has never mentioned anything out of the ordinary.
I wouldn't be too fussed about Libya either, they are trying to kick start their tourist industry and there are no major issues that I've heard of other than an occasional pickpocket. AFAIK it is still a dry country so don't expect to get a drink while you are there (they are looking to change that though). I assume the tour company is sorting out all the visas but I don't think you need your passport translated into Arabic anymore. I doubt you will venture far south but, if you do, check as you need a desert pass for some areas, usually much further south than the general touristy places.
I'm guessing that stopping at Tobruk is so you can go to Cyrene which is supposed to be fantastic.
Anyway, I'm rambling. Enjoy your holiday or alternatively you can come and join me in Algeria
Sod it, we can't let the feckers get us down - we are going to go as planned.
As you say it helps them get back on their feet and get back to normality and I really want to see that part of the world.
I suspect that by the time we get there most of the damaged will be cleared anyway and security will still be as tight as a camel's arse in a sand storm. Just got to make sure I am well insured and the flak jacket doesn’t leave too many unsightly tan lines.
As you say it helps them get back on their feet and get back to normality and I really want to see that part of the world.
I suspect that by the time we get there most of the damaged will be cleared anyway and security will still be as tight as a camel's arse in a sand storm. Just got to make sure I am well insured and the flak jacket doesn’t leave too many unsightly tan lines.
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