Hydrogen Fuel moves a step closer
Discussion
Up until now most hydrogen produced has come from burning fossil fuels (which rather limits the environmental benefit of switching to Fuel cell technology)Now a method ahs been developed that uses sunlight and a metal ore.
I believe the development of cost effective Fuel cell cars is one thing that could save motorists from the persecution they face in this country. Lentilists who wish to crush our freedom have used the environmental argument as a stick to beat us with; if cars could switch to fuel cells the central pillar of their argument would be removed.
Full Telegraph article below
The dream of using hydrogen, the most plentiful element in the universe, as a green fuel moved a step closer yesterday with the announcement that it can be made with the help of sunlight.
Nearly all hydrogen used at present is produced by expensive processes that require the burning of polluting fossil fuels.
Now the Weizmann Institute of Science, in Israel, has tested the environmentally friendly solar method on a large scale.
The results of its experiments will be reported in Orlando, Florida, next week to the world congress of the International Solar Energy Society.
The institute, working with colleagues in Switzerland, France and Sweden on the EU-backed project, used sunlight to heat a metal ore, such as zinc oxide, to about 1,200° Celsius in the presence of charcoal.
This split the ore, releasing oxygen and creating gaseous zinc, which was then condensed to a powder. The powder was later allowed to react with water, yielding hydrogen to be used as fuel and zinc oxide, which was recycled in the solar plant.
Michael Epstein, of the institute, said: "The success of our experiments brings industrial use closer."
He said he foresaw the building of a commercial plant in six to eight years.
The process generates no pollution and the resultant zinc can be easily stored, transported and converted to hydrogen on demand. In addition, the zinc can be used directly, for example, in zinc-air batteries, which serve as efficient converters of chemical to electrical energy.
So the method offers a way of storing solar energy in chemical form and releasing it as it is needed.
The recent summit of G8 leaders at Gleneagles, Perthshire, pledged to encourage co-operation on technology research, including hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicles.
I believe the development of cost effective Fuel cell cars is one thing that could save motorists from the persecution they face in this country. Lentilists who wish to crush our freedom have used the environmental argument as a stick to beat us with; if cars could switch to fuel cells the central pillar of their argument would be removed.
Full Telegraph article below
The dream of using hydrogen, the most plentiful element in the universe, as a green fuel moved a step closer yesterday with the announcement that it can be made with the help of sunlight.
Nearly all hydrogen used at present is produced by expensive processes that require the burning of polluting fossil fuels.
Now the Weizmann Institute of Science, in Israel, has tested the environmentally friendly solar method on a large scale.
The results of its experiments will be reported in Orlando, Florida, next week to the world congress of the International Solar Energy Society.
The institute, working with colleagues in Switzerland, France and Sweden on the EU-backed project, used sunlight to heat a metal ore, such as zinc oxide, to about 1,200° Celsius in the presence of charcoal.
This split the ore, releasing oxygen and creating gaseous zinc, which was then condensed to a powder. The powder was later allowed to react with water, yielding hydrogen to be used as fuel and zinc oxide, which was recycled in the solar plant.
Michael Epstein, of the institute, said: "The success of our experiments brings industrial use closer."
He said he foresaw the building of a commercial plant in six to eight years.
The process generates no pollution and the resultant zinc can be easily stored, transported and converted to hydrogen on demand. In addition, the zinc can be used directly, for example, in zinc-air batteries, which serve as efficient converters of chemical to electrical energy.
So the method offers a way of storing solar energy in chemical form and releasing it as it is needed.
The recent summit of G8 leaders at Gleneagles, Perthshire, pledged to encourage co-operation on technology research, including hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicles.
JagLover said:
Lentilists who wish to crush our freedom have used the environmental argument as a stick to beat us with; if cars could switch to fuel cells the central pillar of their argument would be removed.
I think that many of the group you vilify as 'lentilists' are quite well aware that their environmental spiel will not hold water, what they hate is the freedom of movement that cars give us, and they will therefore always manage to find some spurious and specious pretext to be anti-car.
JagLover said:
I believe the development of cost effective Fuel cell cars is one thing that could save motorists from the persecution they face in this country. Lentilists who wish to crush our freedom have used the environmental argument as a stick to beat us with; if cars could switch to fuel cells the central pillar of their argument would be removed.
They'll still persecute us on the Speed Kills basis, but Hydrogen fuel cells would be wonderful, if only that we can leave the middle east to its own devices.
Einion Yrth said:
Lentilists who wish to crush our freedom have used the environmental argument as a stick to beat us with; if cars could switch to fuel cells the central pillar of their argument would be removed.
I think that many of the group you vilify as 'lentilists' are quite well aware that their environmental spiel will not hold water, what they hate is the freedom of movement that cars give us, and they will therefore always manage to find some spurious and specious pretext to be anti-car.
They've already started by using safety as the means to stop freedom to travel.
Your good health sir. 
Einion Yrth said:
what they hate is the freedom of movement that cars give us, and they will therefore always manage to find some spurious and specious pretext to be anti-car.
Why do they hate freedom of movement ? Do they want us to live like hippys tending to a plot of land or something ?
scorp said:
what they hate is the freedom of movement that cars give us, and they will therefore always manage to find some spurious and specious pretext to be anti-car.
Why do they hate freedom of movement ? Do they want us to live like hippys tending to a plot of land or something ?
the argument is equality.
Einion Yrth said:
I think that many of the group you vilify as 'lentilists' are quite well aware that their environmental spiel will not hold water, what they hate is the freedom of movement that cars give us, and they will therefore always manage to find some spurious and specious pretext to be anti-car.
Of course they will because this is just a pretext to further their true agenda.
However they will be able to gain much less support if the environmental damage from burning fossil fuels was removed.
I wish people would stop referring to hydrogen as fuel, as if it was a replcement for petrol. Since we don't have a supply of hydrogen we have to make it ourselves, which requires energy; hydrogen is just a way of getting the energy to the vehicle. It is just another form of battery, and does nothing to solve the underlying problem of where does the energy come from. To generate this power using solar collectors would seem to require massive collectors somewhere sunny, not anywhere in the UK then, so the energy then has to be transported around the world. Are we going to end up buying sunlight from third world countries then? That would certainly take care of the third world debt!
GreenV8S said:
. To generate this power using solar collectors would seem to require massive collectors somewhere sunny, not anywhere in the UK then, so the energy then has to be transported around the world.
So exactly the same situation as with fossil fuels then, but without the pollution.
ing nieghborhood... 
t1grm said:
Unless I’m missing something this process uses zinc oxide so in 100 years time we’ll all be panicking over the fact that the world’s zinc oxide deposits are running out.
You can worry about that but im pretty dam sure im not going to be around in 100 years time and by then some smart bugger would have found a way to run your car on urine.
GreenV8S said:
Unless I’m missing something this process uses zinc oxide so in 100 years time we’ll all be panicking over the fact that the world’s zinc oxide deposits are running out.
I assumed the solar bit converted zinc oxide back to zinc, isn't that the idea?
yep,
1) ZnO2 + sunlight -> Zn + O2
2) Zn + 2H2O ---> ZnO2 + H2 + heat
... back to 1)
Fido said:
Unless I’m missing something this process uses zinc oxide so in 100 years time we’ll all be panicking over the fact that the world’s zinc oxide deposits are running out.
I assumed the solar bit converted zinc oxide back to zinc, isn't that the idea?
yep,
1) ZnO2 + sunlight -> Zn + O2
2) Zn + 2H2O ---> ZnO2 + H2 + heat
... back to 1)
Except that I think the first one should read 2 ZnO + C --(1200 deg C)-> 2 Zn + CO2...
(and the second, Zn + H2O -> ZnO + H2 )
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