Anyone in banking.....£800 nicked from account
Discussion
Hi,
Short story is my daughter just started university last week, and has just found out that £800 has been liberated from her bank account, into which her loan had just been paid.
Now it gets a little complicated, but I'd like to know if anyone could advise if we've a decent case for the bank to re-imburse the cash.
The ONLY known facts are that person or persons unknown withdrew 4 lots of £200 in cash, using a PIN number, from various locations in Nottingham, over a period of four days.
All her banking details, cheque books, PIN number, Switch card, etc. were sent to the University post office, and the Uni are supposed to hold all items that "look" like banking items in a secure place, and the student has to produce the relevant ID in order to secure their release.(All other mail items are placed in an entirely unsecure open pigeon hole type affair.) Now this worked fine for the cheque book, but the PIN number was placed in the unsecure area (but was not tampered with), and she never saw sight of the Switch card at all.
She was packed off last weekend with a £100 cash to tide her over for a few days until the loan comes into her account around Tuesday. Because it's Freshers week, she pi$$es most of that away by Monday, and uses her separate solo card (on the same account, with the samr PIN number as her never to be seen Switch card) a couple of times on Campus to get a few quid out.
Come Friday the banks fraud software clicks in, and she gets a call from the bank questioning the x4 £200 withdrawals.
Off to the bank she went...they blamed her, either she was attempting fraud, or she gave someone the PIN number and they nicked the card from possibly the unsecure post area, or someone spied her PIN number over her shoulder whilst withdrawing cash. So off she went to the cops...."not theft, fraud. Here's an incident number go back to the bank."
Trouble is we can't absolutley prove she never received the card, as it wasn't signed out as a secure item from the Uni post room.(The Uni will presumably just shrug, and suggest they never received the card into the post room) It was probably left in the unsecure area, and some theiveing Get lifted it. The last bit of this theory I struggle with. We think the card got lifted last Monday. Whoever lifted it then needed to physically identify where on campus my daughter was staying, what she looked like (bear in mind all of these students have only been on campus for 48hrs), and then stake her out "just in case" she goes to the cashpoint, then get close enough to spy the PIN being entered using her Solo card..???
Just friggin weird, and I'm seriously annoyed with the Uni for slack practise, and the bank for not getting stuff like this signed for.
Rant over, any comforting words?
Paul
Short story is my daughter just started university last week, and has just found out that £800 has been liberated from her bank account, into which her loan had just been paid.
Now it gets a little complicated, but I'd like to know if anyone could advise if we've a decent case for the bank to re-imburse the cash.
The ONLY known facts are that person or persons unknown withdrew 4 lots of £200 in cash, using a PIN number, from various locations in Nottingham, over a period of four days.
All her banking details, cheque books, PIN number, Switch card, etc. were sent to the University post office, and the Uni are supposed to hold all items that "look" like banking items in a secure place, and the student has to produce the relevant ID in order to secure their release.(All other mail items are placed in an entirely unsecure open pigeon hole type affair.) Now this worked fine for the cheque book, but the PIN number was placed in the unsecure area (but was not tampered with), and she never saw sight of the Switch card at all.
She was packed off last weekend with a £100 cash to tide her over for a few days until the loan comes into her account around Tuesday. Because it's Freshers week, she pi$$es most of that away by Monday, and uses her separate solo card (on the same account, with the samr PIN number as her never to be seen Switch card) a couple of times on Campus to get a few quid out.
Come Friday the banks fraud software clicks in, and she gets a call from the bank questioning the x4 £200 withdrawals.
Off to the bank she went...they blamed her, either she was attempting fraud, or she gave someone the PIN number and they nicked the card from possibly the unsecure post area, or someone spied her PIN number over her shoulder whilst withdrawing cash. So off she went to the cops...."not theft, fraud. Here's an incident number go back to the bank."
Trouble is we can't absolutley prove she never received the card, as it wasn't signed out as a secure item from the Uni post room.(The Uni will presumably just shrug, and suggest they never received the card into the post room) It was probably left in the unsecure area, and some theiveing Get lifted it. The last bit of this theory I struggle with. We think the card got lifted last Monday. Whoever lifted it then needed to physically identify where on campus my daughter was staying, what she looked like (bear in mind all of these students have only been on campus for 48hrs), and then stake her out "just in case" she goes to the cashpoint, then get close enough to spy the PIN being entered using her Solo card..???
Just friggin weird, and I'm seriously annoyed with the Uni for slack practise, and the bank for not getting stuff like this signed for.
Rant over, any comforting words?
Paul
Sorry to hear it. 
Not much I can offer by way advice but I sympathise. My sister had money taken from her account and the bank insisted that either she had taken it out and forgotten about it or she'd given someone her PIN as their cashpoints were "100% secure" 
I would recommend though that your daughter gets her cashpoint cards etc delivered somewhere a bit more secure in future.
Not much I can offer by way advice but I sympathise. My sister had money taken from her account and the bank insisted that either she had taken it out and forgotten about it or she'd given someone her PIN as their cashpoints were "100% secure" I would recommend though that your daughter gets her cashpoint cards etc delivered somewhere a bit more secure in future.
Get an appointment with somebody with the slightest bit of authority (Student Accounts Officer/Manager etc) and explain the facts to the them.
Firmly, but calmly point out that you are not happy that cards/PINs are not sent using recorded delivery or held at the branch for collection, and that if there is any problem with the money being reimbursed you will simply close you account and move to a different bank.
Firmly, but calmly point out that you are not happy that cards/PINs are not sent using recorded delivery or held at the branch for collection, and that if there is any problem with the money being reimbursed you will simply close you account and move to a different bank.
I don't want to pee on your chips, but even with CCTV footage the bank is unlikely to refund the money. I'm not for a second suggesting this is the case, but the card and pin could've been given to an accomplice. Sadly, there are lots of people who've tried to defraud banks this way, so they're pretty tough about withdrawals made using a PIN, unless you can prove the card was cloned. The T's & C's given when the account was opened are likely to say that liability for the security of your PIN remains with you.
My only constructive suggestion is to try to find out if this has happened to other students. If so, the university and police will need to be involved, once it becomes a criminal investigation the bank is likely to be more sympathetic.
I do hope you can get it resolved.
My only constructive suggestion is to try to find out if this has happened to other students. If so, the university and police will need to be involved, once it becomes a criminal investigation the bank is likely to be more sympathetic.
I do hope you can get it resolved.
DanH said:
Just escalate it until you find someone who cares. There are fraud depts in the banks and you need to be talking to them, not some halfwit teller.
Exactly right.
I have had fraud performed on my account twice - and been refunded both times.
Do not take no for an answer, and maybe go along with her (wear a suit) to see the bank manager.
It is actually the bank's responsibility, not hers.
I thought in these cases the banks refunded if it is reported to the police as a crime? PIN theft, cloning and dodgy add-ons at ATMs by crims are all fairly well documented, aren't they?
If banks have a blanket policy of refusing to refund in the event of fraud, I'm seriously concerned.
If banks have a blanket policy of refusing to refund in the event of fraud, I'm seriously concerned.
chim girl said:
Just out of interest, did the fraud involve someone having both your card and pin number?
Yes, did with me.
They used an ATM in Frankfurt twice whilst i was at Laserquest in Guildford. Money refunded with virtualy no delay.
The fraud has not been against the student's bank account. The fraud was against the cash machine that gave out the cash. The fact they had the card and pin is immaterial, the machine was "conned" into giving out cash to the wrong person.
julianhj said:
If banks have a blanket policy of refusing to refund in the event of fraud, I'm seriously concerned.
They don't have a blanket policy as far as I am aware, in the circumstances described the 'fraud' is very difficult to prove - for either party. However, just to balance things, would you feel that a bank should instantly refund money to someone drug taking scally who is claiming to have had this kind of 'fraud' commited? In reality they gave the card and pin to a mate whilst turning a blind eye for a week. As I said, I'm not agreeing with it or suggesting that this poor girl falls into this type; just trying to look at it from a different perspective.
Sadly, in the absence of unequivocal proof that she is innocent, you're relying on someone at the bank being understanding and making a decision to cover the loss or to lose a customer. As suggested above, it may be worth both of you meeting someone face to face, particularly if you (Dad) hold accounts with the same bank.
Errm, can you just repeat one thing.
Did she have a card that could be used in ATM machines other than the one that was sent to the University. It strikes me that if she in effect had two cards that could be used on the same account, the original card has been skimmed.
Not sure why the bank is prevaracting as they fraud isn't against them in the first place, its against the owners of the cash machine, eg another bank.
I'm assuming she is in Nottingham and the fraud was committed in Nottingham.
Did she have a card that could be used in ATM machines other than the one that was sent to the University. It strikes me that if she in effect had two cards that could be used on the same account, the original card has been skimmed.
Not sure why the bank is prevaracting as they fraud isn't against them in the first place, its against the owners of the cash machine, eg another bank.
I'm assuming she is in Nottingham and the fraud was committed in Nottingham.
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