Deportations - why so difficult?
Discussion
The tabloid-style reporting of the BBC website once again got my hackles up today:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4456480.stm
Why is it soooo difficult to get rid of people from this country? Someone, please tell me the fault in my logic below:
Q1. What is the point of applying for asylum in this country?
A1. To see whether you are allowed to stay.
Q2. If you are not allowed to stay, what should happen to you?
A2. You should be forced to leave.
Q3. What one thing would undermine the whole process?
A3. Not forcing people to leave when they are suppoed to.
Q4. In the light of A3 (above), what is the point of the asylum process?
A4. ... on a postcard (from Iraq!) please ...
And they have reported how many? Oh yes, 15. Yes, boys and girls, that is 15. Fifteen people. A big fat 15. Ten-and-five. A few less than twenty. Out of HOW many people of dubious immigration status in the UK at the moment?
15 may well be better than none at all, I guess, but I would ask what is the per-head cost of deporting those 15 (starting the cost calculation at the start of their application process) and why is this not 150, or 15,000, or more? At a MUCH lower cost, of course ...
Oli.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4456480.stm
Why is it soooo difficult to get rid of people from this country? Someone, please tell me the fault in my logic below:
Q1. What is the point of applying for asylum in this country?
A1. To see whether you are allowed to stay.
Q2. If you are not allowed to stay, what should happen to you?
A2. You should be forced to leave.
Q3. What one thing would undermine the whole process?
A3. Not forcing people to leave when they are suppoed to.
Q4. In the light of A3 (above), what is the point of the asylum process?
A4. ... on a postcard (from Iraq!) please ...
And they have reported how many? Oh yes, 15. Yes, boys and girls, that is 15. Fifteen people. A big fat 15. Ten-and-five. A few less than twenty. Out of HOW many people of dubious immigration status in the UK at the moment?
15 may well be better than none at all, I guess, but I would ask what is the per-head cost of deporting those 15 (starting the cost calculation at the start of their application process) and why is this not 150, or 15,000, or more? At a MUCH lower cost, of course ...
Oli.
As far as i am aware if you challenge or appeal the governments decision to deport you, you are allowed to stay while your case is pending, since in some cases it could cause someone to be executed or something on return, in reality however , everyone takes the rhubarb 
.
>> Edited by scorp on Monday 21st November 15:49
. >> Edited by scorp on Monday 21st November 15:49
All that happens is that said illegal immigrant drops of the radar and lives by a fraudulent ID doing cash in hand jobs, paying no taxes and possibly getting involved in crime - which is the next time the system picks them up (possibly) and the process starts again.
To be honest, no-one has a clue who is actually residing in this country now - we could have - and probably do have - mass murderers, psychotics, drug lords, crime bosses, rapists, molestors, serial killers and more from other countries who have virtually no effective policing at all. And that doesn't even include the terrorists and their supporters enjoying life on the British Taxpayer's wallet.
It is a pretty grim and dangerous situation.
>> Edited by alexkp on Monday 21st November 16:04
To be honest, no-one has a clue who is actually residing in this country now - we could have - and probably do have - mass murderers, psychotics, drug lords, crime bosses, rapists, molestors, serial killers and more from other countries who have virtually no effective policing at all. And that doesn't even include the terrorists and their supporters enjoying life on the British Taxpayer's wallet.
It is a pretty grim and dangerous situation.
>> Edited by alexkp on Monday 21st November 16:04
Hmmmm...
Watch you don't all stray too much into Daily Mail territory. State the case simply without calling (or implying that) imigrants and asylum seekers as rapists and murderers. By far the most crime, murder, fraud, rape etc is committed by white British, on white British. It's just old and tired, which is why it doesn't get reported. We need bogeymen to blame these things on, so illegal foreigners, with their odd beards and languages, get a reporters' bias, taking up our airtime disproportionately.
Why can't we just have a points-based system like Canada and Australia? Then the people who really deserved to stay could stay and contribute to society properly. And the devious foreign criminal louts who abuse the system (which they do) can be excluded.
Fairer?
>> Edited by R555SSH on Monday 21st November 16:51
Watch you don't all stray too much into Daily Mail territory. State the case simply without calling (or implying that) imigrants and asylum seekers as rapists and murderers. By far the most crime, murder, fraud, rape etc is committed by white British, on white British. It's just old and tired, which is why it doesn't get reported. We need bogeymen to blame these things on, so illegal foreigners, with their odd beards and languages, get a reporters' bias, taking up our airtime disproportionately.
Why can't we just have a points-based system like Canada and Australia? Then the people who really deserved to stay could stay and contribute to society properly. And the devious foreign criminal louts who abuse the system (which they do) can be excluded.
Fairer?
>> Edited by R555SSH on Monday 21st November 16:51
R555SSH said:
Hmmmm...
Watch you don't all stray too much into Daily Mail territory. State the case simply without calling (or implying that) imigrants and asylum seekers as rapists and murderers. By far the most crime, murder, fraud, rape etc is committed by white British, on white British. It's just old and tired, which is why it doesn't get reported. We need bogeymen to blame these things on, so these foreigners get a reporters' bias.
Why can't we just have a points-based system like Canada and Australia? Then the people who really deserved to stay could stay and contribute to society properly. And the devious foreign criminal louts who abuse the system (which they do) can be excluded.
Fair?
I certainly didn't say or imply that all asylum seekers are criminals - but some are. And the problem is we don't have a clue which ones, or where they are.
[quote]
I certainly didn't say or imply that all asylum seekers are criminals - but some are. And the problem is we don't have a clue which ones, or where they are.
[/quote]
Point taken.
It's good to be clear on these sensitive matters. It's just that mention of asylum these days is usually in the same breath as crime and every other British problem. We don't want to give the lefties easy pickings in our position.. (not that i am a righty either).
I certainly didn't say or imply that all asylum seekers are criminals - but some are. And the problem is we don't have a clue which ones, or where they are.
[/quote]
Point taken.
It's good to be clear on these sensitive matters. It's just that mention of asylum these days is usually in the same breath as crime and every other British problem. We don't want to give the lefties easy pickings in our position.. (not that i am a righty either).
the only mention in my local paper of illegal immigrants in my area,stoke on trent, seems to be when they are raided at their place of work. the headlines usually focus on the fact that they are illegal. but they are working and somehow paying tax. i do not defend illegal immigrants but some are working or wanting to work. the jobs they were doing in one instance could not be filled by the locals who were not prepared to do the work for whatever reason.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
A very good comment.
You are sayin:
1. That Makosi girl should be shot. I entirely agree. The Zimbabweans and the British are probably united on that front.
2. Immigrants probably do commit more crime proportionately than locals. BUT that this has something to do with economic need or the temptation to become deviant when lost in an apparently chaotic system. I agree too.
3. We get too PC for our own good. I agree most on this. I think the guilt of the British (/white) man is such that he sometimes cathced himself going to silly lengths to assuage it. THEN, he gets anbgry at himself for how ridiculous this can get. Hence the silly Crimewatch thread. You only need to ask the ethnic group themselves (a neutral member of the ethnic group- not some right wing moraliser) what they think of the rules that you can't sing Baa baa black sheep. They woud say 'Why the hell not you silly fool'?
Genuinely glad there is such sense being spoken form time to time on these forums. Nit that it makes any difference in the real world, but hey what the hell.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
(I was going to put up a separate post on this .....but seems topical to this thread )
She was interviewed on C4 News - un
ing believable what happened :........ 1. Get visa to work in Britain as an nurse from Zimbabwe (no problem with that )
2. Break conditions of work visa to go on Big Brother
3. Have tits-out lesbo sex-romp on National TV (allegedly )
4. Claim "refugee" and "asylum" status because she would now be persecuted if she went back to Zim.
5. Refugee status granted by the "Powers-that-be" FFS !
So now all you have to do to get asylum is deliberately break the conditions of your work visa , and do something which *might* offend the folks back home . :speechless:
alfaman said:
[
So now all you have to do to get asylum is deliberately break the conditions of your work visa , and do something which *might* offend the folks back home . :speechless:
I agree she should have NOT had her visa granted.
But I have a more cruel motive:
She would DEFINITELY be hurt back in Zimbabwe.
My brother lives in Zim. It is a very literal Christian nation- no gays, sex before marriage etc (excuse the clumsy term literal christian). And the publis are VERY conservative.
The papers have been full of Makosi's antics, and people HATE here there. Zimbabweans are very proud and, recently, angry people.
I think she is in danger no matter where she goes, for being a stupid tart. She should be deprted to outer space.
>> Edited by R555SSH on Monday 21st November 17:19
R555SSH said:
[
So now all you have to do to get asylum is deliberately break the conditions of your work visa , and do something which *might* offend the folks back home . :speechless:
I agree she should have NOT had her visa granted.
But I have a more cruel motive:
She would DEFINITELY be hurt back in Zimbabwe.
My brother lives in Zim. It is a very literal Christian nation- no gays, sex before marriage etc (excuse the clumsy term literal christian). And the publis are VERY conservative.
The papers have been full of Makosi's antics, and people HATE here there. Zimbabweans are very proud and, recently, angry people.
I think she is in danger no matter where she goes, for being a stupid tart. She should be deprted to outer space.
>> Edited by R555SSH on Monday 21st November 17:19
She KNEW that very well when she went on B.B - deliberate ploy to abuse the UK visa/asylum system .....its a pity the hand wringing officials were taken-in.
scorp said:
She KNEW that very well when she went on B.B - deliberate ploy to abuse the UK visa/asylum system .....its a pity the hand wringing officials were taken-in.
Simple solution being to forbid anyone of zimbabwean nationality from entering the uk.
The NHS nursing system would implode overnight.
scorp said:
She KNEW that very well when she went on B.B - deliberate ploy to abuse the UK visa/asylum system .....its a pity the hand wringing officials were taken-in.
Simple solution being to forbid anyone of zimbabwean nationality from entering the uk.
that would be a real pity considering the state of Zim. right now ... the NHS has benefited from quite a few nurses from there.
scorp said:
that would be a real pity considering the state of Zim. right now ... the NHS has benefited from quite a few nurses from there.
There are plenty of unemployed nurses in other poor countries which speak good english, whats so special about 'zim'?
fair point re. nurses .... there are plenty of other countries. The difference with Zim is that the country is so
ed up that most people are starving ........and if they have a useful skill to offer ( e.g Nurse ) .... getting a visa to another country works for both parties..... but I guess that begs the question who would be left in Zim to look after sick people.scorp said:
There are plenty of unemployed nurses in other poor countries which speak good english, whats so special about 'zim'?
Why Zimbabwe is a fantastic source of labour:
1. It used to be British (well kind of). All the laws, systems, regs etc are close to the British way. People from their can live here very easily.
2. Zimbabwe had the highest literacy rate in Africa. Probably higher than UK, considering the shape of our schooling system!
3. A screwed up leadership, with no prospects of immediate improvement. Immediate solution= Leave the country.
Yes there are no health care professionals left there. But Britain didn't poach them- they left relctantly. The sick in Zimbabwe really are screwed...
Getting back to the serious matter, where does Makosi live? And where can you buy a gun?
R555SSH said:
Why Zimbabwe is a fantastic source of labour:
1. It used to be British (well kind of). All the laws, systems, regs etc are close to the British way. People from their can live here very easily.
2. Zimbabwe had the highest literacy rate in Africa. Probably higher than UK, considering the shape of our schooling system!
3. A screwed up leadership, with no prospects of immediate improvement. Immediate solution= Leave the country.
As i said, there are plenty of countries with many unemployed nurses who are equally willing to get out of their hell holes, i don't see why zim is anything special. Unless the government have a quota on how many ethnic africans they must have for the nhs or something totally ridiculous
scorp said:
Why Zimbabwe is a fantastic source of labour:
1. It used to be British (well kind of). All the laws, systems, regs etc are close to the British way. People from their can live here very easily.
2. Zimbabwe had the highest literacy rate in Africa. Probably higher than UK, considering the shape of our schooling system!
3. A screwed up leadership, with no prospects of immediate improvement. Immediate solution= Leave the country.
As i said, there are plenty of countries with many unemployed nurses who are equally willing to get out of their hell holes, i don't see why zim is anything special. Unless the government have a quota on how many ethnic africans they must have for the nhs or something totally ridiculous
Umm...points 1 and 2. Ahh nevermind. Makosi must die...don't distract me.
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