King Abdullah - Encouraging Act
Discussion
It is good to see an important Middle Eastern leader taking such a courageous step and do what so many others do not have the nads to do.
Before any of you start crying that this is from Fox, it is an Associated Press article
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,176646,00.html
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,176128,00.html
>> Edited by jimbeaux on Friday 25th November 16:29
Before any of you start crying that this is from Fox, it is an Associated Press article
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,176646,00.html
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,176128,00.html
>> Edited by jimbeaux on Friday 25th November 16:29
What a pity then that the US will leave them for a neighbour a honeypot that's attracting every militant not in Afghanistan.
Where is Zarqawi's base for the Jordanian attacks ? Iraq.
Where are the militants from Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Jordan* going to ? Iraq.
General Abizaid to the Senate Committee.
*Source
Where is Zarqawi's base for the Jordanian attacks ? Iraq.
Where are the militants from Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Jordan* going to ? Iraq.
General Abizaid to the Senate Committee.
*Source
Hilts said:
What a pity then that the US will leave them for a neighbour a honeypot that's attracting every militant not in Afghanistan.
Where is Zarqawi's base for the Jordanian attacks ? Iraq.
Where are the militants from Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Jordan* going to ? Iraq.
General Abizaid to the Senate Committee.
*Source
Four militany groups have asked for peace negotiations with the Iraqi government. Don't be such a pessimist. Was that on the BBC today, I did not check? Let's quit with the "Bush lied" crap because you simply don't like him...that is stale. Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, and Jay Rockefellar, all Democrats are on taped video record saying they believe Saddam to be a threat and he cannot be allowed to proceed. The intel turned out wrong. Wrong and lying are two different things. The Russians, Germans, and British came to the same conclusion. The Democrats sit on the House Intelligence Committee, they have the EXACT information available to the President...the EXACT.
Amazing how all those intelligence agencies were wrong, and saddam was actually telling us the truth all along... But at least it wasn't anyones fault. Of course this is before we get into the 'exactly what did they show the rest of the political parties' argument? was it the raw intelligence from Iraq, or the slightly different '45 minutes' version that disregarded any misgivings the intelligent agencies had at the time? (I am not going to argue about this, but seeing Bush and Blair wash their hands of it, and say it wasn't our fault, it was bad intelligence is a bit patronising, especially to those who happen to have been killed in the ensuing conflict. Thats all I am saying on the matter)
Ah! Yes!....45 Minutes..MMmmh! :thinks:Now where on earth could a Saddam led Iraq be capable of hitting, in 45 minutes, with his extended scuds capable of flying well over their agreed 600 mile range?.....MMmmh!
Doo-doo, Doo-doo, doobly-doo Bong!!!!
Tell us the answer Miss Vorderman!........
Why! it's ...Mr Sharon!!!...(not a small target is he?)
Doo-doo, Doo-doo, doobly-doo Bong!!!!
Tell us the answer Miss Vorderman!........
Why! it's ...Mr Sharon!!!...(not a small target is he?)
andy mac said:
Amazing how all those intelligence agencies were wrong, and saddam was actually telling us the truth all along... But at least it wasn't anyones fault. Of course this is before we get into the 'exactly what did they show the rest of the political parties' argument? was it the raw intelligence from Iraq, or the slightly different '45 minutes' version that disregarded any misgivings the intelligent agencies had at the time? (I am not going to argue about this, but seeing Bush and Blair wash their hands of it, and say it wasn't our fault, it was bad intelligence is a bit patronising, especially to those who happen to have been killed in the ensuing conflict. Thats all I am saying on the matter)
Fair point.
los angeles said:
The Democrats sit on the House Intelligence Committee, they have the EXACT information available to the President...the EXACT.
No LA, they had the SAME RAW DATA at the same time. The "selective quotes", which indeed exist, came after.
jimbeaux said:
The Democrats sit on the House Intelligence Committee, they have the EXACT information available to the President...the EXACT.
No LA, they had the SAME RAW DATA at the same time. The "selective quotes", which indeed exist, came after.
1.) Politicians do not get raw data. They get intelligence agency reports.
2.) The House Intelligence Committee did not get the same information as the president. This is why they are asking for PDB documents to be available to them.
GMan 2112 said:
The Democrats sit on the House Intelligence Committee, they have the EXACT information available to the President...the EXACT.
No LA, they had the SAME RAW DATA at the same time. The "selective quotes", which indeed exist, came after.
1.) Politicians do not get raw data. They get intelligence agency reports.
2.) The House Intelligence Committee did not get the same information as the president. This is why they are asking for PDB documents to be available to them.
If you say so.
jimbeaux said:
What a pity then that the US will leave them for a neighbour a honeypot that's attracting every militant not in Afghanistan.
Where is Zarqawi's base for the Jordanian attacks ? Iraq.
Where are the militants from Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Jordan* going to ? Iraq.
General Abizaid to the Senate Committee.
*Source
Four militany groups have asked for peace negotiations with the Iraqi government. Don't be such a pessimist. Was that on the BBC today, I did not check? Let's quit with the "Bush lied" crap because you simply don't like him...that is stale. Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, and Jay Rockefellar, all Democrats are on taped video record saying they believe Saddam to be a threat and he cannot be allowed to proceed. The intel turned out wrong. Wrong and lying are two different things. The Russians, Germans, and British came to the same conclusion. The Democrats sit on the House Intelligence Committee, they have the EXACT information available to the President...the EXACT.
jimbeaux said:
Four militany groups have asked for peace negotiations with the Iraqi government.
Wow ! there are possibly 100 separate insurgent groups operating in Iraq, Men's Faith Brigade, Supporters of the Sunni People, Islamic Anger, Al Baraa bin Malik Suicide Brigade, Tawid Lions etc etc plus Al Qaeda in Iraq. To say that 4 have asked for peace is purely spin.
jimbeaux said:
Don't be such a pessimist
Pessimist ? realist more like. As one of your Lt. General's said 'This invasion will turn out to be the greatest strategic disaster in US military history.
Why bring up the subject of Bush and his lying/flip-flopping in a thread started by you about Jordan ?
The King has been at it for a little while longer than most will appreciate.
On a visit last year one of the two main routes south from Amman to Aqaba, one goes straight through the Desert the other follows the Dead Sea. The Desert route was closed off completely as they (the Jordanian Army) were doing a complete sweep of Zarqwai´s home turf. We were forced to do a U turn to get south, trust me pulling up at a check point and not being fully aware of who is flagging you down can be a bit unnerving in that part of the world
.
Harry
On a visit last year one of the two main routes south from Amman to Aqaba, one goes straight through the Desert the other follows the Dead Sea. The Desert route was closed off completely as they (the Jordanian Army) were doing a complete sweep of Zarqwai´s home turf. We were forced to do a U turn to get south, trust me pulling up at a check point and not being fully aware of who is flagging you down can be a bit unnerving in that part of the world
. Harry
simpo two said:
I find it amazing that people are so keen to rush to the other side. You should support your own side, whether or not they are right.
Such is the weakness of democracy.
Are you talking about people who argue against the war, or insurgent types, who are duffing up the locals?
Islamic fundamentalism started way before US/UK invasion of Iraq.It started in muslim countries against their own people and against their own muslim goverments.Secular/military goverments in muslim countries like Egypt and Algeria have been fighting fundamentalism since the 80's.These extremist wanted to take their own countries back to the middle ages , and lock up all women and introduce the Shariia as the law.They planted bombs , killed innocent children , raped women and beheaded them afterwards, and set fire to houses while people were still asleep inside.These are muslim victims not some blonde blue eyed westerners.
What did we do about it?we turned a blind eye and criticised the very "undemocratic" goverments that were repressing these bearded murderers.We did worse than that , we harboured all these low life scums in this country ,France,Germany,Italy, Spain, Belgium, Holland, and of course the USA in the name of freedom of speech.We wouldn't deport them because they'll get executed.
Our naive interpretation of freedom of speech resulted in breeding the "enemy within". Give them money let them preach hatred in mosques, and BANG! 9/11 is a thank you gesture followed by the Madrid bombing and London's 7/7 .
Our resources should have been concentrated on fighting these barbaric extremists( I refuse to call them muslims because they have no connection with that peaceful religion), instead of picking a fight with Saddam.
Don't get me wrong I totally support the invasion of Afghanistan because it was a training camp for all these killers from all over the world for decades now.
Invading Iraq was a mistake in my opinion, Fundamentalism was virtually non existant there under the rule of Saddam.
The oppressor of my enemy is my friend,and if I had two brain cells in my skull to understand how fundamentalism operate, I would have left Saddam alone, and concentrated somewhere else.Iraq was safe from fundamentalism before its invasion, and should have stayed that way.Now it has become a swamp and a Mecca for all fundamentalism worldwide.
We should have helped countries fighting terrorism, instead of criticising them, in giving them resources and share intelligence, it's money well spent to protect us from this evil living amongst us.
Countries like Jordan , Egypt , and Algeria have a vast experience in fighting these monsters who preach in the name of Islam and do otherwise.Maybe we should learn from these countries, support them, and be as ruthless as they are when it comes to self preservation in eradicating religious fundamentalism.
>> Edited by allnighter on Saturday 3rd December 02:36
What did we do about it?we turned a blind eye and criticised the very "undemocratic" goverments that were repressing these bearded murderers.We did worse than that , we harboured all these low life scums in this country ,France,Germany,Italy, Spain, Belgium, Holland, and of course the USA in the name of freedom of speech.We wouldn't deport them because they'll get executed.
Our naive interpretation of freedom of speech resulted in breeding the "enemy within". Give them money let them preach hatred in mosques, and BANG! 9/11 is a thank you gesture followed by the Madrid bombing and London's 7/7 .
Our resources should have been concentrated on fighting these barbaric extremists( I refuse to call them muslims because they have no connection with that peaceful religion), instead of picking a fight with Saddam.
Don't get me wrong I totally support the invasion of Afghanistan because it was a training camp for all these killers from all over the world for decades now.
Invading Iraq was a mistake in my opinion, Fundamentalism was virtually non existant there under the rule of Saddam.
The oppressor of my enemy is my friend,and if I had two brain cells in my skull to understand how fundamentalism operate, I would have left Saddam alone, and concentrated somewhere else.Iraq was safe from fundamentalism before its invasion, and should have stayed that way.Now it has become a swamp and a Mecca for all fundamentalism worldwide.
We should have helped countries fighting terrorism, instead of criticising them, in giving them resources and share intelligence, it's money well spent to protect us from this evil living amongst us.
Countries like Jordan , Egypt , and Algeria have a vast experience in fighting these monsters who preach in the name of Islam and do otherwise.Maybe we should learn from these countries, support them, and be as ruthless as they are when it comes to self preservation in eradicating religious fundamentalism.
>> Edited by allnighter on Saturday 3rd December 02:36
allnighter said:
Islamic fundamentalism started way before US/UK invasion of Iraq.It started in muslim countries against their own people and against their own muslim goverments.Secular/military goverments in muslim countries like Egypt and Algeria have been fighting fundamentalism since the 80's.These extremist wanted to take their own countries back to the middle ages , and lock up all women and introduce the Shariia as the law.They planted bombs , killed innocent children , raped women and beheaded them afterwards, and set fire to houses while people were still asleep inside.These are muslim victims not some blonde blue eyed westerners.
What did we do about it?we turned a blind eye and criticised the very "undemocratic" goverments that were repressing these bearded murderers.We did worse than that , we harboured all these low life scums in this country ,France,Germany,Italy, Spain, Belgium, Holland, and of course the USA in the name of freedom of speech.We wouldn't deport them because they'll get executed.
Our naive interpretation of freedom of speech resulted in breeding the "enemy within". Give them money let them preach hatred in mosques, and BANG! 9/11 is a thank you gesture followed by the Madrid bombing and London's 7/7 .
Our resources should have been concentrated on fighting these barbaric extremists( I refuse to call them muslims because they have no connection with that peaceful religion), instead of picking a fight with Saddam.
Don't get wrong I totally support the invasion of Afghanistan because it was a training camp for all these killers from all over the world for decades now.
Invading Iraq was a mistake in my opinion, Fundamentalism was virtually non existant there under the rule of Saddam.
The oppressor of my enemy is my friend,and if I had two brain cells in my skull to understand how fundamentalism operate, I would have left Saddam alone, and concentrated somewhere else.Iraq was safe from fundamentalism before its invasion, and should have stayed that way.Now it has become a swamp and a Mecca for all fundamentalism worldwide.
We should have helped countries fighting terrorism instead of criticise them, in giving them resources and share intelligence, it's money well spent to protect us from this evil living amongst us.
Countries like Jordan , Egypt , and Algeria have a vast experience in fighting these monsters who preach in the name of Islam and do otherwise.Maybe we should learn from them, support them, and be as ruthless as they are when it comes to self preservation.
>> Edited by allnighter on Saturday 3rd December 02:18
Well said; however, being ruthless is unfashionable. One must be gentle and understanding to those who would harm you to be fashionable. Trust in the good nature of your fellow man, this will show him the way....Neville Chamberlain anyone?
>> Edited by jimbeaux on Saturday 3rd December 02:25
jimbeaux said:
Well said; however, being ruthless is unfashionable. One must be gentle and understanding to those who would harm you to be fashionable.
Trust me , religious fanatics only understand ruthlessness.Why do you think they escape their own countries to come here?then slap us in the face as a thank you!
Self preservation comes 1st before any understanding towards a criminal who preaches hatred and insults the very freedom that we provide him .
allnighter said:
Well said; however, being ruthless is unfashionable. One must be gentle and understanding to those who would harm you to be fashionable.
Trust me , religious fanatics only understand ruthlessness.Why do you think they escape their own countries to come here?then slap us in the face as a thank you!
Self preservation comes 1st before any understanding towards a criminal who preaches hatred and insults the very freedom that we provide him .
I agree, I was being sarcastic, not opposing at all
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