Heating a flat
Discussion
After last year’s experience that Mediterranean winters can be colder than I thought I’ve decided I need to install heating in my flat this winter. I have no gas so it will have to be electric. I have three bedrooms, two bathrooms, and an L-shaped open plan living/dining/kitchen/hall area to heat. I don’t want to be chasing cables into plaster and redecorating so I guess it’s going to have to be freestanding or wall mounted units.
So where to start?
Do I go for radiators or storage heaters? The latter are more expensive but I guess they are cheaper to run?
Also how do I work out how many units I need for each area and where to position them? They have different power ratings so I would like to try and match them to the size of the room. I also think I’ll need at least 2 or three for the open plan area. Is there a formula where I can get required power based on the volume or area of the room?
Finally what about control? Is there such a thing as electric central heating? Can I control them centrally? I am planning on putting X50 home automation modules in for the lights and curtains at some point in the future so perhaps I could control the heating from this as well?
So where to start?
Do I go for radiators or storage heaters? The latter are more expensive but I guess they are cheaper to run?
Also how do I work out how many units I need for each area and where to position them? They have different power ratings so I would like to try and match them to the size of the room. I also think I’ll need at least 2 or three for the open plan area. Is there a formula where I can get required power based on the volume or area of the room?
Finally what about control? Is there such a thing as electric central heating? Can I control them centrally? I am planning on putting X50 home automation modules in for the lights and curtains at some point in the future so perhaps I could control the heating from this as well?
t1grm said:
Do I go for radiators or storage heaters? The latter are more expensive but I guess they are cheaper to run?
Not necessarily. The designers have an unfortunate habit of being distracted by making them "slim and stylish" and forget to include an essential component - three inches of fibreglass wool insulation around the firebricks, which is needed so that the "storage" part actually works.
The place I'm in originally had storage heating. Even if I ran them on full pelt overnight - which made it so hot that I felt ill in the morning - they'd lose all their heat during the day due to the lack of insulation, so it'd still be cold in the evening. It worked out to be cheaper to leave a small convector on all the time.
Mind you, you're a brave man trying to heat somewhere that big electrically anyway...
Plotloss said:
X10 perhaps?
Be aware, that if you plan to run a lot of X10 devices they by no means guarantee delivery, few of them on a lot of wire is alright but they run into trouble if used in high density.
Edit: D'uh, no gas.
Sorry yes. X10 is what I meant. So far I have 4 pairs of curtains, 1 lamp and 5 lighting circuits I need to control. I think you can control upto 16 devices from on control unit so I should be OK.
I think it's normal not to have gas in modern apartment blocks.
Pigeon said:
Mind you, you're a brave man trying to heat somewhere that big electrically anyway...
Well since there is no gas service to the apartment building I don't have a choice. Unless I go for free standing heaters that work with a gas cannister. Although I'm not sure I'm even allowed those.
AICIT that building regs don't allow you to have mains gas fed to new apartment blocks now? Something to do with apartment blocks being demolished by gas explosions. It only takes one owner to have a poorly maintained appliance and it could take half the building out.
In anycase the winter's aren't exactly harsh here so I don't anticipate having to use it too much. Hence the reason I don't want to spend a fortune on it.
We have storage heaters and I personally wouldn't recommend them. It might just be that ours are faulty (wouldn't suprise me) but they hardly put out any heat what so ever and are quite expensive to run. Also, no matter how we program them - they come on when they feel like it! If you do go for them - don't get a creda one 
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You can't box in gas pipework, though. In the event of a leak it creates a space where gas could accumulate. You have to vent these spaces. Gas is normally routed on the outside of the building. Just a case of protecting it from knocks etc.
The OP's landlord's reluctance to install gas probably has something to do with Ronan Point
Edited to add
You can use an electrically powered thermal store to run you hot water and heating. Something like the Gledhill Electramate 2000. Follow the links for apartment solutions;
www.gledhill.net/water-storage/ws-index.htm
>> Edited by rsvmilly on Monday 28th November 16:20
We have electric heaters in each room of our apartment, and they are rather rubbish, sadly like you we have no other choice, so jumpers and keeping doors shut is our only way of surviving the surprisingly cold winters here. The old lady below us has central heating, which we are very jealous of.
Do you have shutters on your apartment? Ours keep in the heat very well.
Do you have shutters on your apartment? Ours keep in the heat very well.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Very true... I don't have a lot of patience with these kind of regulations. To my mind, the natural human desire not to blow yourself up is sufficient incentive to do things properly. It doesn't need legal backup. I'd rather have a fine or go to prison than be in lots of little bits...
A thought has just occurred to me: heat pumps. Air conditioners running backwards to extract heat energy from the outside air and pump it inside. The heat output power ends up being about three times the electrical input power, so 3kW of heating only takes 1kW of juice.
Pigeon said:
A thought has just occurred to me: heat pumps. Air conditioners running backwards to extract heat energy from the outside air and pump it inside. The heat output power ends up being about three times the electrical input power, so 3kW of heating only takes 1kW of juice.
Yes most apartments here have air conditioning that can heat during the winter. That is the standard solution. In fact the apartment comes with roof space and a powerpoint for the owner to install aircon. However this is quite expensive, requires quite a lot of piping to be installed and I don't really need the aircon part becuase the apartment is comparitivley cool in the summer.
Maybe I'll get a couple of free standing gas fires for this year and look at aircon in the summer.
Best solution for heating is to have 5 3-bar 3kW heaters in each room, on allthe time. Keeps you toasty warm - you might have to open some windows - and when the meter needs read, hide them all out the way.
Since your meter will now be halfway round the clock, you complain about a faulty meter, and even if they change it, you carry on and do the same with the next one.
If you're really skillful, you can get the meter to clock over in one reading period, and appear to have used almost no electricity.
Since your meter will now be halfway round the clock, you complain about a faulty meter, and even if they change it, you carry on and do the same with the next one.
If you're really skillful, you can get the meter to clock over in one reading period, and appear to have used almost no electricity.
Size Nine Elm said:
Best solution for heating is to have 5 3-bar 3kW heaters in each room, on allthe time. Keeps you toasty warm - you might have to open some windows - and when the meter needs read, hide them all out the way.
Since your meter will now be halfway round the clock, you complain about a faulty meter, and even if they change it, you carry on and do the same with the next one.
If you're really skillful, you can get the meter to clock over in one reading period, and appear to have used almost no electricity.
Pigeon said:I think you're right. Especially about Ronan Point. In some respects, the gas causing the collapse was a red herring. The real problem was the lack of structural redundancy.
Ronan Point was an accident waiting to happen, gas or no - according to that link it'd probably have blown down sooner or later anyway... Suspect the OP's landlord is just a cheapskate. That's certainly the case at my place. (Who replaces the light bulbs in the main staircase? Me...)
There is now a revised Approved Document A which is supposed to limit the possibility of disproportionate collapse - that is, a collapse which is not proportionate to its cause. My experience of it is that some engineers - always a wary bunch, ready to chuck more steel at a structure - are really going over the top to protect their PI insurance.
Underfloor heating costs a fortune to run and doesn't work very well. I've got a mate who lives in a tower block with electric underfloor heating; he uses convectors instead because it's more effective and a whole lot cheaper. There are some housing association apartments round here that were built with electric underfloor heating; the HA had to retrofit conventional gas-boiler-and-radiators heating because nobody could afford to run the underfloor stuff.
I still reckon the heat pump is the best idea in terms of running costs, especially if the place is already fitted out for it. After all, you don't have to use the aircon function if you don't want to. And it makes more sense to spend a bit more on a system that's cheaper to run rather than be worrying about the cost every time you switch on a less good system.
I still reckon the heat pump is the best idea in terms of running costs, especially if the place is already fitted out for it. After all, you don't have to use the aircon function if you don't want to. And it makes more sense to spend a bit more on a system that's cheaper to run rather than be worrying about the cost every time you switch on a less good system.
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff