NHS on Jeremy Vine
Discussion
Interview with surgeon from Truro.
It's worth a listen.
Bloke sounds top banana!
Basically he doesn't have a waiting list.
Patient comes to see him Tuesday, if urgent op will be under the knife Thursday same week. A more general op, say hernia, will be done within next two weeks.
He is being told to back off and create a 5 month waiting list by area NHS Trust. Bean counters & budgets is the short explanation.
Surgeon also points out that deliberately making a waiting list will result in a sudden panic when NHS trust close to breaking HMG waiting list rules and thus patients farmed off to private treatment.
Then they interviewed Ms Hewitt Sec of State for Health if I heard correctly.
Ms Hewitt attempts to plait fog and says this is a good thing! That is in addition to avoiding answering any question.
PH-ers your task is, provide me with ONE reason why this ill begotten excuse for a Government and Ms Hewitt in particular should be allowed to remain in power for one more day?
and breathe.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Wednesday 14th December 14:01
It's worth a listen.
Bloke sounds top banana!
Basically he doesn't have a waiting list.
Patient comes to see him Tuesday, if urgent op will be under the knife Thursday same week. A more general op, say hernia, will be done within next two weeks.
He is being told to back off and create a 5 month waiting list by area NHS Trust. Bean counters & budgets is the short explanation.
Surgeon also points out that deliberately making a waiting list will result in a sudden panic when NHS trust close to breaking HMG waiting list rules and thus patients farmed off to private treatment.
Then they interviewed Ms Hewitt Sec of State for Health if I heard correctly.
Ms Hewitt attempts to plait fog and says this is a good thing! That is in addition to avoiding answering any question.
PH-ers your task is, provide me with ONE reason why this ill begotten excuse for a Government and Ms Hewitt in particular should be allowed to remain in power for one more day?
and breathe.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Wednesday 14th December 14:01
esselte said:
Remind me..how much extra money has this gov. thrown into the NHS?
Indeed. But you may be better off by asking how bad the situation has been over the last 20 years, how many wards have been closed, hospitals shut down and how many re-organisations of the health care system have happened in that time also.......
There is no long term plan. The NHS is subject to the whim of whichever Minister is in charge, for a brief tenure of perhaps 4 years, it'll change again, when the next one comes in.....
I keep saying it, but it needs to be de-politicised, so desparately.....
polus said:
beds may be in short supply.
I was under the impression that this is the problem. How long does it take before someone can go home on average? Even if it was a day an operation will take say 2 hours with 3 being performed each day you’re going to fill the beds quickly!
But he is not doing any more operations than other surgeons. It isn't as if he is feeding more patients into the system than the system can physically handle, it's a money and timing thing if I understood correctly.
Also he makes the point that if you see patient on day 1, if health and other issues allow, then on day 3 patient's condition, his diary, patient's diary, bla bla are still going to be in a similar state as on day 1. Yet 5 months later one or more factors could well have gone to hell in a handbasket.
Simplified argument I know, but it made sense to me, which is more than Hewitt did, or ever does for that matter.
Not to mention if it is a resource thing, ie more beds, nurses; why not take the 15% that HMG is firing off in direction of private sector and put it into resources where needed. He maintains that taking the private option is very expensive. I can believe that, having seen some private medical bills.
edited because first post didn't make sense.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Wednesday 14th December 15:02
Flat in Fifth said:
Not to mention if it is a resource thing, ie more beds, nurses; why not take the 15% that HMG is firing off in direction of private sector and put it into resources where needed. He maintains that taking the private option is very expensive. I can believe that, having seen some private medical bills.
edited because first post didn't make sense.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Wednesday 14th December 15:02
Agreed with all, except this bit. It isn't as expensive as you might think. A GP friend of mine is currently assessing tenders for referring orthopaedic patients to either the local NHS hospital, or the local private hospital. An outpatient appt in NHS costs £125 per visit, the same appt in the private hospital is £130...... There will be less waiting time in the private sector, at least until their level of referral becomes unacceptibly high, and they can't cope with them.....
simpo two said:
An outpatient appt in NHS costs £125 per visit
Why? It seems a lot for 20 minutes of someone's time, even if they do earn £90K pa.
Because you're not just paying for their time, you're paying for the administration costs of running the department, and employing all the ancillary staff that make the department run, from the clerical assistants, receptionists, nurses, doctors, as well as any pharmacy costs that are incurred in the clinic.....
968 said:
Remind me..how much extra money has this gov. thrown into the NHS?
Indeed. But you may be better off by asking how bad the situation has been over the last 20 years, how many wards have been closed, hospitals shut down and how many re-organisations of the health care system have happened in that time also.......
There is no long term plan. The NHS is subject to the whim of whichever Minister is in charge, for a brief tenure of perhaps 4 years, it'll change again, when the next one comes in.....
I keep saying it, but it needs to be de-politicised, so desparately.....
Agreed. The sooner the NHS is privatised the better.
ofcorsa said:
Can anyone tell me how privatisation would work? would private companies bid to buy franchises off the goverment?
>> Edited by ofcorsa on Wednesday 14th December 15:35
It's already happened to a degree.....
Independent treament centres have been offered the tender to do operations for the NHS. The money is paid by the local PCT to the private company for doing the work.
As of next year, all GPs will have to offer 5 options for a patient, each time they are referred, 1 of these will have to be a private or independent treatment centre. The patient will then choose, depending on waiting times for appointments, geographical location etc......
From what I read, huge multinational companies like Pfizer and Tesco are licking their lips at the potential gravy train, of government subsidies to provide health care.
While there has been some extra money given to the NHS it should be remembered that this has not kept pace with expectation. As new (and very expensive) treatments have become available, we, the public, have expected the NHS to simply provide those treatments. My wife, who is a senior cancer nurse, was telling me recently that while their drugs budget has increased this year, 25% of that budget has gone on one single patient as they are having a new “wonder drug”. While I would not want to deny that patient their treatment, it simply would not have been available a couple of years ago.
The increase in waiting times is a short term solution to a huge problem. It simply pushes some of the work, and thus the cost, into the next financial year in the blind hope that things will be easier next year as they will be “better managed” and there will be slightly more money.
What is needed is an open public debate as to what the NHS will and will not pay for. There is simply not enough money available to pay for all of the treatments the politicians have lead the public to believe they are entitled too.
The increase in waiting times is a short term solution to a huge problem. It simply pushes some of the work, and thus the cost, into the next financial year in the blind hope that things will be easier next year as they will be “better managed” and there will be slightly more money.
What is needed is an open public debate as to what the NHS will and will not pay for. There is simply not enough money available to pay for all of the treatments the politicians have lead the public to believe they are entitled too.
yertis said:
From what I read, huge multinational companies like Pfizer and Tesco are licking their lips at the potential gravy train, of government subsidies to provide health care.
I hope Tesco Hospitals won't serve Tesco's own brand cornflakes at breakfast - they're revolting...
I'm pretty sure they will, along with tescos brand foods..... they will utilise every opportunity for product placement, whilst delivering care
s2art said:
Remind me..how much extra money has this gov. thrown into the NHS?
Indeed. But you may be better off by asking how bad the situation has been over the last 20 years, how many wards have been closed, hospitals shut down and how many re-organisations of the health care system have happened in that time also.......
There is no long term plan. The NHS is subject to the whim of whichever Minister is in charge, for a brief tenure of perhaps 4 years, it'll change again, when the next one comes in.....
I keep saying it, but it needs to be de-politicised, so desparately.....
Agreed. The sooner the NHS is privatised the better.
Just pray that Jarvis et all don't get in on the act. After they bought the railways look how well that went.
Bernie Ecclescake
should give something back and write the contracts and cut the deal for NHS privatisation. He could even get 10% as a fee !968 said:
Not to mention if it is a resource thing, ie more beds, nurses; why not take the 15% that HMG is firing off in direction of private sector and put it into resources where needed. He maintains that taking the private option is very expensive. I can believe that, having seen some private medical bills.
Agreed with all, except this bit. It isn't as expensive as you might think. A GP friend of mine is currently assessing tenders for referring orthopaedic patients to either the local NHS hospital, or the local private hospital. An outpatient appt in NHS costs £125 per visit, the same appt in the private hospital is £130...... There will be less waiting time in the private sector, at least until their level of referral becomes unacceptibly high, and they can't cope with them.....
Fair enough I'll bow to better knowledge.
My judgement is coloured somewhat by receiving a series of bills for an operation on Mrs FiF, but admittedly quite some years back.
The one that sticks in the mind was one which amounted to paying for a technician to walk to the stores, get two units of blood, walk to reception and put them into a waiting taxi. It was for £36.
The cost of the blood and the taxi were extra and billed separately.
Things must have changed.
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