Help needed - possibly solicitor - garage screwing car
Discussion
Right, I took my Capri to a garage to have the gearstick refitted (funny connection on a Mk 1 Capri that I couldn't find a repleacement for) and an MOT test. The car failed the MOT test but supposedly the gearstick was sorted so I decided to pick the car up. My mates dad used to rally the exact model I own so I figured I'd let him take a look.
Anyway, I went for the car and as soon as I got in, the gearstick wasn't right. It was as if it was in neutral in every single gear, normally the gearbox is tighter than a fishes ear. I decided to take it home anyway and then take it back to get the gearstick sorted. When I came to drive it away the clutch was right at the top. The clutch is like new so normally it's about half way. I asked the owner if they had adjusted it, and rather off hand he said 'Why would we adjust your clutch?!'. I said that I didn't know but it definitely wasn't like that when I took it. Again he denied any knowledge. I got home, put the car on the drive and noticed mud all up the side of the car, obviously they have been messing about in the car on the muddy car park at the back. Seems some moron has never seen a rear wheel drive car. The mud from the front wheels is on the back quarter, so they haven't been going slow.
So, basically I've paid them to f
k with my car. I've taken many digital pictures which are timed and dated. Where can I go from here? I cannot leave this not sorted.
Anyway, I went for the car and as soon as I got in, the gearstick wasn't right. It was as if it was in neutral in every single gear, normally the gearbox is tighter than a fishes ear. I decided to take it home anyway and then take it back to get the gearstick sorted. When I came to drive it away the clutch was right at the top. The clutch is like new so normally it's about half way. I asked the owner if they had adjusted it, and rather off hand he said 'Why would we adjust your clutch?!'. I said that I didn't know but it definitely wasn't like that when I took it. Again he denied any knowledge. I got home, put the car on the drive and noticed mud all up the side of the car, obviously they have been messing about in the car on the muddy car park at the back. Seems some moron has never seen a rear wheel drive car. The mud from the front wheels is on the back quarter, so they haven't been going slow.
So, basically I've paid them to f
k with my car. I've taken many digital pictures which are timed and dated. Where can I go from here? I cannot leave this not sorted.I would try going back down and speak to the manager telling them of all your findings and suspitions, and 'tell' them what 'you need' them to do to resolve the situation - initially pleasantly.
If that doesn't work, then I would let them know that you have photo evidence and that you will be taking advice from your solicitor. They may back down at this but you may have to carry on to your solicitor. It may be that an independant assessment of what has or hasn't been done will be required (guessing there), and again at the first sign of a solicitors letter they may back down.
That's the first things to spring to mind, all the best and hope it all works out for you.
I'd send it all along with a letter explaining what you expected them to do and what it looks like they have done and what you want done about it. I'd copy it to the local trading standards too, as it sounds like it's just a small garage and there's not much you can do if they tell you to off.
My Mrs had a similar experience, but with an Audi dealer, so it was a bit easier to get things sorted as you can go over their heads to Audi UK if they get shirty about it.
off. My Mrs had a similar experience, but with an Audi dealer, so it was a bit easier to get things sorted as you can go over their heads to Audi UK if they get shirty about it.
Okay, don't flame me here.
Can you prove they have been hammering your car? I doubt it. Nothing that would stand up in court anyway.
Can you prove they haven't fixed your gearstick? Or can you prove it is no better than when it went in?
Capris have hydraulic cluthches don't they? No adjustment is possible then.
I can understand your disappointment at their apprent lack of a fix of your car, but seriously doubt you can do anything about it. The bottom line is it is your word against theirs.
Talk to them and see if there is anything they are prepared to to as a 'goodwill' gesture.
Can you prove they have been hammering your car? I doubt it. Nothing that would stand up in court anyway.
Can you prove they haven't fixed your gearstick? Or can you prove it is no better than when it went in?
Capris have hydraulic cluthches don't they? No adjustment is possible then.
I can understand your disappointment at their apprent lack of a fix of your car, but seriously doubt you can do anything about it. The bottom line is it is your word against theirs.
Talk to them and see if there is anything they are prepared to to as a 'goodwill' gesture.
please explain how/why Speak to them and see what they say. Maybe get a solicitor to send a letter even. You never know.
If that fails - just put a county court summons in and see what happens. (You want your money back and then add in the cost for a new gearbox and everything you can think of). They will either blink and refund the money/sort the car out properly, or they'll go to court and then its down to your word against theres.
HOWEVER, a lot of people who go to court fail to submit a defence. If you havent submitted a defence in writing then you are unable to say anything in court. So although its your word against theres - if they accidently forget to submit a defence then you win.
Don't forget, that becase this Capri is your P&J you just happened to of taken a picture of it the day before it went to the garage. You have before and after pictures. And if you find a muddy car park you have the location. It might not add up to much - but it'll be more than the defence will have
If that fails - just put a county court summons in and see what happens. (You want your money back and then add in the cost for a new gearbox and everything you can think of). They will either blink and refund the money/sort the car out properly, or they'll go to court and then its down to your word against theres.
HOWEVER, a lot of people who go to court fail to submit a defence. If you havent submitted a defence in writing then you are unable to say anything in court. So although its your word against theres - if they accidently forget to submit a defence then you win.
Don't forget, that becase this Capri is your P&J you just happened to of taken a picture of it the day before it went to the garage. You have before and after pictures. And if you find a muddy car park you have the location. It might not add up to much - but it'll be more than the defence will have
eccles said:
putting the clutch issue aside, surely you would expect them to test drive the car to see if the gearstick worked (i mean if you got the car back, and it didn't work, you'd still be unhappy.), and you dont have to be going very fast to get mud sprayed up the side of your car.
at risk of playing devil's advocate to the capri owner, this will be their response, and you will need something to come back to them with, otherwise you would lose your case
the garage owner has a point,why would he adjust your clutch??
he do things for nowt im sure.
could it be that the cable is frayed and has stretched?
i think you need to have a good look and find out whats actually gone wrong before you go making yourself look silly at the garage.
i see it all the time.we fitted a new door to a womans car,and she was on the phone ranting and raving because she couldnt open it from inside.we asked her to pop it back so that we could investigate the problem,under duress and with much shouting and trying to get compensation for time off work and petrol to bring it back to us.
you guessed it...
the child lock was on.how small do you think she felt then.
just a thought
russ
he do things for nowt im sure.
could it be that the cable is frayed and has stretched?
i think you need to have a good look and find out whats actually gone wrong before you go making yourself look silly at the garage.
i see it all the time.we fitted a new door to a womans car,and she was on the phone ranting and raving because she couldnt open it from inside.we asked her to pop it back so that we could investigate the problem,under duress and with much shouting and trying to get compensation for time off work and petrol to bring it back to us.
you guessed it...
the child lock was on.how small do you think she felt then.
just a thought
russ
tinman0 said:
Speak to them and see what they say. Maybe get a solicitor to send a letter even. You never know.
If that fails - just put a county court summons in and see what happens. (You want your money back and then add in the cost for a new gearbox and everything you can think of). They will either blink and refund the money/sort the car out properly, or they'll go to court and then its down to your word against theres.
HOWEVER, a lot of people who go to court fail to submit a defence. If you havent submitted a defence in writing then you are unable to say anything in court. So although its your word against theres - if they accidently forget to submit a defence then you win.
Don't forget, that becase this Capri is your P&J you just happened to of taken a picture of it the day before it went to the garage. You have before and after pictures. And if you find a muddy car park you have the location. It might not add up to much - but it'll be more than the defence will have
Pretty much agree with all this, but use the small claims court, much cheaper and quicker. If you can fix an exact price to put it right www.moneyclaim.gov.uk may be worth a look, but get some impartial advice first.
tallbloke said:
Speak to them and see what they say. Maybe get a solicitor to send a letter even. You never know.
If that fails - just put a county court summons in and see what happens. (You want your money back and then add in the cost for a new gearbox and everything you can think of). They will either blink and refund the money/sort the car out properly, or they'll go to court and then its down to your word against theres.
HOWEVER, a lot of people who go to court fail to submit a defence. If you havent submitted a defence in writing then you are unable to say anything in court. So although its your word against theres - if they accidently forget to submit a defence then you win.
Don't forget, that becase this Capri is your P&J you just happened to of taken a picture of it the day before it went to the garage. You have before and after pictures. And if you find a muddy car park you have the location. It might not add up to much - but it'll be more than the defence will have
Pretty much agree with all this, but use the small claims court, much cheaper and quicker. If you can fix an exact price to put it right www.moneyclaim.gov.uk may be worth a look, but get some impartial advice first.
Sorry to quote all this but I'm not sure that this proves anything. What is his claim?? That he thinks the clutch has been knackered?? If so what do pictures of a clean and then muddy car prove? To bring a claim in a small claims court or any other he must prove his case to the satisfaction of the court. I'm not sure I'm seeing enough to do that.
Can the original poster set out what is now wrong with the car and briefly how he thinks the garage caused this?
Piglet said:
Speak to them and see what they say. Maybe get a solicitor to send a letter even. You never know.
If that fails - just put a county court summons in and see what happens. (You want your money back and then add in the cost for a new gearbox and everything you can think of). They will either blink and refund the money/sort the car out properly, or they'll go to court and then its down to your word against theres.
HOWEVER, a lot of people who go to court fail to submit a defence. If you havent submitted a defence in writing then you are unable to say anything in court. So although its your word against theres - if they accidently forget to submit a defence then you win.
Don't forget, that becase this Capri is your P&J you just happened to of taken a picture of it the day before it went to the garage. You have before and after pictures. And if you find a muddy car park you have the location. It might not add up to much - but it'll be more than the defence will have
Pretty much agree with all this, but use the small claims court, much cheaper and quicker. If you can fix an exact price to put it right www.moneyclaim.gov.uk may be worth a look, but get some impartial advice first.
Sorry to quote all this but I'm not sure that this proves anything. What is his claim?? That he thinks the clutch has been knackered?? If so what do pictures of a clean and then muddy car prove? To bring a claim in a small claims court or any other he must prove his case to the satisfaction of the court. I'm not sure I'm seeing enough to do that.
Can the original poster set out what is now wrong with the car and briefly how he thinks the garage caused this?
First of all - it doesn't prove anything. The first part is a simple game of bluff. (eg sending letters and threats)
The second part is playing the system to your advantage. For instance part of your case for a new gearbox is the expert witness statement from a Ford specialist to say the gearbox is knackered, the defence now has to prove that the gearbox was not knackered - but they don't have access to the car so its pretty difficult for them to prove that.
The before and after pictures are very important as generally there is no mud in the workshop when the car was tested. So where did the mud come from? Thats an answer the JP/Magistrate would probably like to know as well.
The whole point of going to court is to tie them up in knots. All it takes is a bit of thought and a desire to play the system.
Its always a chance going to court - doesn't matter how strong or weak your case is - if the JP/Magistrate is in a good mood that morning - you'll may win.
Since when did magistrates/JPs hear civil claims then, Tinman?
If the condition of the vehicle is put into issue, the court will have to make an order giving the Defendant ample access to it to obtain its own expert evidence.
I'm with Piglet on this. It's hard at the moment to see where a claim lies, in the absence of more categoric evidence that the garage is guilty of wrong-doing.
It's worth bearing in mind that if the claim works out to be for more than £5K, the original poster stands to be even further out of pocket if he proceeds to trial and loses - not only his own legal costs but those of the Defendant too. Even if it's sub-£5K, he won't get his own legal costs back, win or lose.
It might help to know a bit more about the system before you blithely advise someone to sue without any real evidence and see how it pans out!
If the condition of the vehicle is put into issue, the court will have to make an order giving the Defendant ample access to it to obtain its own expert evidence.
I'm with Piglet on this. It's hard at the moment to see where a claim lies, in the absence of more categoric evidence that the garage is guilty of wrong-doing.
It's worth bearing in mind that if the claim works out to be for more than £5K, the original poster stands to be even further out of pocket if he proceeds to trial and loses - not only his own legal costs but those of the Defendant too. Even if it's sub-£5K, he won't get his own legal costs back, win or lose.
It might help to know a bit more about the system before you blithely advise someone to sue without any real evidence and see how it pans out!
i have no idea what the title of the people who saw the cases i was involved in. i was just the little guy.
you are perfectly at liberty to make any claim you want from anyone you want. if the claim is without basis it will be struck out.
>> Edited by tinman0 on Friday 30th December 23:56
you are perfectly at liberty to make any claim you want from anyone you want. if the claim is without basis it will be struck out.
>> Edited by tinman0 on Friday 30th December 23:56
Sorry, that came across as being rather more intemperate than I had intended.....
You're right - the court will strike out a claim if its without merit. But the advice to sue and worry about the details isn't misplaced since it will most likely result in the person suing incurring costs of their own in doing so by the time it gets struck out.
Too many people today have the immediate reaction when something goes wrong that they should sue because someone is to blame. It's one thing to show that a contract has been breached or a civil wrong committed, but quite another to show that a loss flows directly from it and to produce evidence to show a direct causal link between the two.
I'm not saying there's no claim here - I'm saying that the original poster needs to get his ducks in a row, including obtaining an engineering report on the problems he thinks have been caused by the garage, before running off to court.
You're right - the court will strike out a claim if its without merit. But the advice to sue and worry about the details isn't misplaced since it will most likely result in the person suing incurring costs of their own in doing so by the time it gets struck out.
Too many people today have the immediate reaction when something goes wrong that they should sue because someone is to blame. It's one thing to show that a contract has been breached or a civil wrong committed, but quite another to show that a loss flows directly from it and to produce evidence to show a direct causal link between the two.
I'm not saying there's no claim here - I'm saying that the original poster needs to get his ducks in a row, including obtaining an engineering report on the problems he thinks have been caused by the garage, before running off to court.
Lurking Lawyer said:
Too many people today have the immediate reaction when something goes wrong that they should sue because someone is to blame. It's one thing to show that a contract has been breached or a civil wrong committed, but quite another to show that a loss flows directly from it and to produce evidence to show a direct causal link between the two.
I think the opposite is true nowadays. When you have been wronged (and I feel this guy has been because you know your own car) there are some companies who will tell you to get
ed to your face. You have very little recourse but to bring in the heavy guns. I'm not advocating going down the route of suing someone in the small claims lightly. you have to have your case prepared (by yourself and not a solicitor) which takes a bit of time, but a lot of it comes down to knowing the system and having the balls to actually go through with your threat.
It could be at the end of the day the garage takes the car back and sorts it out properly - indeed I hope they do.
To show that I'm not taking this too seriously this evening I'm going to do a random smiley:
Happy New Year btw.
>> Edited by tinman0 on Saturday 31st December 00:25
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