French Riviera gang terrorises passengers in two-hour train
Discussion
I'm sure they're good lads really protesting against police racism or some such 
When such animals gain control over an entire train full of ordinary citizens then something is badly wrong in a society.
When such animals gain control over an entire train full of ordinary citizens then something is badly wrong in a society.
Telegraph said:
French Riviera gang terrorises passengers in two-hour train rampage
By Colin Randall
(Filed: 05/01/2006)
Hundreds of passengers were terrorised by a mob of youths rampaging through a train on the French Riviera.
One young woman was sexually assaulted, travellers were robbed of phones and cash, and carriages were wrecked in the two-hour assault, it emerged yesterday.
Up to 40 youths involved in the attacks had taken advantage of a special fare of about 80p to travel from Marseilles and Avignon to celebrate the New Year in Nice.
They were part of a larger group of 100, many drunk from their overnight festivities and escorted by police to Nice station for their return journey at dawn on Sunday.
A small police team accompanied the Lyons-bound train at first. But trouble broke out soon after their departure.
Eventually the driver stopped the train at Les Arc-sur-Argens to appeal for extra police assistance. Only three officers turned up and violence continued as they awaited reinforcements before boarding the train. The line was blocked for an hour and a half as police gained control of the train.
Passengers spoke of being warned they would be killed if they refused to hand over belongings or told police what had happened.
They said they were too frightened to intervene and several refused to lodge complaints of theft or assault.
"It was a real scene of pillage on the train," the regional prosecutor, Dominique Luiggi, said yesterday as details emerged. "Passengers were in a state of panic."
One witness said there had already been assaults and threats, including other indecent attacks on young women, on Saturday's outward journey.
He said the robbers were of Arab origin and had boasted about their plans to cause more trouble on the train.
President Jacques Chirac promised yesterday to bring the gang to justice. He said those responsible would be "found and punished".
France's Le Parisien newspaper likened the youths to the gang in the film Clockwork Orange.
AK47 ! 
The problem with law enforcement is that it only works through consent and fear.
There are very very small numbers of police compared to the overall population and the police forces in the western world arent set up to deal with very large numbers of people.
Once the number passes a few dozen, policy tends to shift towards containment and preventing damage rather than mass arrests (think of the may day riots for example), as the police operate and train in small groups, not the battalions, companies and platoons needed for mass enforcement.
If enough people have no fear of the police or the law and do not consent to be ruled, there is bugger all the police can do about it in the very short term.
For example, I would assume that arresting 100 violent drunken yobs would require more than 100 police officers - how long would it take to assemble a minimum of 200 police ready to go? No wonder they waited for backup on arrival, the police arent trained to be stupid (although some do manage it despite their lack of training!) and were a small group of coppers to try and arrest a LARGE gang on the rampage, they would be enjoying hospital food for quite some time I expect...
There are very very small numbers of police compared to the overall population and the police forces in the western world arent set up to deal with very large numbers of people.
Once the number passes a few dozen, policy tends to shift towards containment and preventing damage rather than mass arrests (think of the may day riots for example), as the police operate and train in small groups, not the battalions, companies and platoons needed for mass enforcement.
If enough people have no fear of the police or the law and do not consent to be ruled, there is bugger all the police can do about it in the very short term.
For example, I would assume that arresting 100 violent drunken yobs would require more than 100 police officers - how long would it take to assemble a minimum of 200 police ready to go? No wonder they waited for backup on arrival, the police arent trained to be stupid (although some do manage it despite their lack of training!) and were a small group of coppers to try and arrest a LARGE gang on the rampage, they would be enjoying hospital food for quite some time I expect...
TheLemming said:
The problem with law enforcement is that it only works through consent and fear.
There are very very small numbers of police compared to the overall population and the police forces in the western world arent set up to deal with very large numbers of people.
Once the number passes a few dozen, policy tends to shift towards containment and preventing damage rather than mass arrests (think of the may day riots for example), as the police operate and train in small groups, not the battalions, companies and platoons needed for mass enforcement.
If enough people have no fear of the police or the law and do not consent to be ruled, there is bugger all the police can do about it in the very short term.
For example, I would assume that arresting 100 violent drunken yobs would require more than 100 police officers - how long would it take to assemble a minimum of 200 police ready to go? No wonder they waited for backup on arrival, the police arent trained to be stupid (although some do manage it despite their lack of training!) and were a small group of coppers to try and arrest a LARGE gang on the rampage, they would be enjoying hospital food for quite some time I expect...
True
But there would have been a time when the police could expect the ordinary law abiding citizen to assist them in such a situation.
Parrot of Doom said:
Hundreds, terrorised by 40?
Something not right there. It only takes a couple of people to stand up and fight back, and the 40 odd would find themselves very much outnumbered.
Exactly
Do you remember the fireworks display story where a few Chavs terrorized a crowd?
Men today are emasculated and sheep like. We have abdicated our responsibilities to a state which is incapable of protecting us.
We are told that society is 'progressing' but would the men of earlier times have sat there and taken it?
Parrot of Doom said:
Hundreds, terrorised by 40?
Something not right there. It only takes a couple of people to stand up and fight back, and the 40 odd would find themselves very much outnumbered.
Depends how the numbers were distributed. 40 sread out across a train for example would be a large number of 1 on 1 or 2 on 1 confrontations, which would result in a large amount of people standing up for themselves or their families. 40 people in one large group on the other hand, or two groups, would grind any individual (or small group of individuals) attempting to stop them by force into meat paste - to put it bluntly.
A concentration of violence will against the first couple of people to make a stand would likely put the rest of the crowd into "sheep mode". If modern France is anything like the modern UK, the amount of people who would make a stand is shrinking rapidly.
Jaglover said:
The problem with law enforcement is that it only works through consent and fear.
There are very very small numbers of police compared to the overall population and the police forces in the western world arent set up to deal with very large numbers of people.
Once the number passes a few dozen, policy tends to shift towards containment and preventing damage rather than mass arrests (think of the may day riots for example), as the police operate and train in small groups, not the battalions, companies and platoons needed for mass enforcement.
If enough people have no fear of the police or the law and do not consent to be ruled, there is bugger all the police can do about it in the very short term.
For example, I would assume that arresting 100 violent drunken yobs would require more than 100 police officers - how long would it take to assemble a minimum of 200 police ready to go? No wonder they waited for backup on arrival, the police arent trained to be stupid (although some do manage it despite their lack of training!) and were a small group of coppers to try and arrest a LARGE gang on the rampage, they would be enjoying hospital food for quite some time I expect...
True
But there would have been a time when the police could expect the ordinary law abiding citizen to assist them in such a situation.
indeed there was...
That time, was when their were a civil consensus of mutual protection; they support us, we support them. The police role then was to uphold and maintain the law according to that consensus, an essential element of this mutuality was a 'one tribe' society and laws shaped to reflect that fact, now in these days of political ethnic propogation and ever tightening laws that favour less the individuals freedom, in an all-inclusive nirvana that exists in the minds of our political masters; the notions of people feeling they belong enough to society to want to put themselves on the line for the sake of it, are becoming rarer by the day. Until of course, the ground finally shifts, and when it does, I suspect we will all have to decide which side we are on whether we will like it or not, only it won't be a 'left' or 'right' decision, our masters of the universe by then will have polarised society within their 'orb of everything' to the extent that it will come down to a more fundemental choice; inside or outside.
Jaglover said:
Hundreds, terrorised by 40?
Something not right there. It only takes a couple of people to stand up and fight back, and the 40 odd would find themselves very much outnumbered.
Exactly
Do you remember the fireworks display story where a few Chavs terrorized a crowd?
Men today are emasculated and sheep like. We have abdicated our responsibilities to a state which is incapable of protecting us.
We are told that society is 'progressing' but would the men of earlier times have sat there and taken it?
We can thank human rights and political correctness for that emasculation I guess, I've a feeling the worm will turn one day
police state said:
indeed there was...
That time, was when their were a civil consensus of mutual protection; they support us, we support them. The police role then was to uphold and maintain the law according to that consensus, an essential element of this mutuality was a 'one tribe' society and laws shaped to reflect that fact, now in these days of political ethnic propogation and ever tightening laws that favour less the individuals freedom, in an all-inclusive nirvana that exists in the minds of our political masters; the notions of people feeling they belong enough to society to want to put themselves on the line for the sake of it, are becoming rarer by the day. Until of course, the ground finally shifts, and when it does, I suspect we will all have to decide which side we are on whether we will like it or not, only it won't be a 'left' or 'right' decision, our masters of the universe by then will have polarised society within their 'orb of everything' to the extent that it will come down to a more fundemental choice; inside or outside.
Hell of a second post
Jaglover said:
indeed there was...
That time, was when their were a civil consensus of mutual protection; they support us, we support them. The police role then was to uphold and maintain the law according to that consensus, an essential element of this mutuality was a 'one tribe' society and laws shaped to reflect that fact, now in these days of political ethnic propogation and ever tightening laws that favour less the individuals freedom, in an all-inclusive nirvana that exists in the minds of our political masters; the notions of people feeling they belong enough to society to want to put themselves on the line for the sake of it, are becoming rarer by the day. Until of course, the ground finally shifts, and when it does, I suspect we will all have to decide which side we are on whether we will like it or not, only it won't be a 'left' or 'right' decision, our masters of the universe by then will have polarised society within their 'orb of everything' to the extent that it will come down to a more fundemental choice; inside or outside.
Hell of a second post
I seem to have summarised that far less eloquently, nicely put
Jaglover said:
indeed there was...
That time, was when their were a civil consensus of mutual protection; they support us, we support them. The police role then was to uphold and maintain the law according to that consensus, an essential element of this mutuality was a 'one tribe' society and laws shaped to reflect that fact, now in these days of political ethnic propogation and ever tightening laws that favour less the individuals freedom, in an all-inclusive nirvana that exists in the minds of our political masters; the notions of people feeling they belong enough to society to want to put themselves on the line for the sake of it, are becoming rarer by the day. Until of course, the ground finally shifts, and when it does, I suspect we will all have to decide which side we are on whether we will like it or not, only it won't be a 'left' or 'right' decision, our masters of the universe by then will have polarised society within their 'orb of everything' to the extent that it will come down to a more fundemental choice; inside or outside.
Hell of a second post
Thank you Mr Jag, actually I have been visiting the site for some time now (and only recently bothered to signup), mainly to check out the motoring info, despite my username, i am a car nut, not a troll or political opportunist. Perhaps I should change it to 'Police car State'
happy motoring (whilst you still can...)
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