What is considered "middle class" income in the UK?
Discussion
I was thinking about buying a summer home in Stratford upon Avon and about fell out of my chair when I saw how much houses cost over there. Even the smaller houses were in the 250,000 pound range.
In the US, houses are considerably less expensive. The average middle class family would bring home between 25000 to 45000 pounds per year (Sorry for spelling that out, my keyboard doesn't have the symbol for pounds). They would buy a house in the 100,000 - 120,000 pound range and still live within their means.
I live in a new house that is 2400 sq ft with 4 bedrooms, two baths, two car garage, and about a half acre lot. If I were to sell my house tomorrow, I would hope to get about $200,000, or 115,000 pounds.
Are houses in Stratford Upon Avon priced higher than in the rest of the UK? Are wages high enough in the UK that a 250,000 pound house would be considered affordable to a middle class UK resident?
In the US, houses are considerably less expensive. The average middle class family would bring home between 25000 to 45000 pounds per year (Sorry for spelling that out, my keyboard doesn't have the symbol for pounds). They would buy a house in the 100,000 - 120,000 pound range and still live within their means.
I live in a new house that is 2400 sq ft with 4 bedrooms, two baths, two car garage, and about a half acre lot. If I were to sell my house tomorrow, I would hope to get about $200,000, or 115,000 pounds.
Are houses in Stratford Upon Avon priced higher than in the rest of the UK? Are wages high enough in the UK that a 250,000 pound house would be considered affordable to a middle class UK resident?
The relative costs of living make a compelling case for a permanent move to the US. It's something I considered last year when my job options with my then-current employer were heading towards "get to the US or get out" - I got out, but after giving serious consideration to a move. I was looking at a move to Wichita, which is not the greatest of places, but not the worst from what I've seen, and were I to sell my small house in the UK, I could have bought a very nice home indeed in the US.
In the end, I couldn't commit to a permanent move to the US for personal reasons. But the standard of living available relative to income was certainly appealing.
In the end, I couldn't commit to a permanent move to the US for personal reasons. But the standard of living available relative to income was certainly appealing.
As one poster has said class is not merely determined by income in the UK.
As for what income is needed for a middle class 'lifestlye' it often depends on your age. If you bought before the great house price inflation (say in the mid 1970s) then one income of £30K might be sufficient.
For the young it would take a dual income of at least £60K.
As for what income is needed for a middle class 'lifestlye' it often depends on your age. If you bought before the great house price inflation (say in the mid 1970s) then one income of £30K might be sufficient.
For the young it would take a dual income of at least £60K.
Post WWII the UK set up a planning agency in order to ensure that housing supply was adequate and appropriate. As often happens with civil service departments this agency was progressively hijacked by special interest/ lobbying groups, most of whom actively lobby for less housing to be built.
The result has been that planning laws have severrely restricted to ability of companies and individuals to build new homes in the UK, there is NO shortage of land just a shortage of land with the appropriate beurocratic stamp of approval for development.
The artificial shortage this created in housing has led to a series of house prices bubbles followed by collapses of which this is just the latest.
FYI UK house prices are currently at an all time record compared to average incomes, and so no, most families in the UK could not afford to buy the house they live in if thay had to at todays values.
The result has been that planning laws have severrely restricted to ability of companies and individuals to build new homes in the UK, there is NO shortage of land just a shortage of land with the appropriate beurocratic stamp of approval for development.
The artificial shortage this created in housing has led to a series of house prices bubbles followed by collapses of which this is just the latest.
FYI UK house prices are currently at an all time record compared to average incomes, and so no, most families in the UK could not afford to buy the house they live in if thay had to at todays values.
joecooool said:
I was thinking about buying a summer home in Stratford upon Avon and about fell out of my chair when I saw how much houses cost over there. Even the smaller houses were in the 250,000 pound range.
In the US, houses are considerably less expensive. The average middle class family would bring home between 25000 to 45000 pounds per year (Sorry for spelling that out, my keyboard doesn't have the symbol for pounds). They would buy a house in the 100,000 - 120,000 pound range and still live within their means.
I live in a new house that is 2400 sq ft with 4 bedrooms, two baths, two car garage, and about a half acre lot. If I were to sell my house tomorrow, I would hope to get about $200,000, or 115,000 pounds.
Are houses in Stratford Upon Avon priced higher than in the rest of the UK? Are wages high enough in the UK that a 250,000 pound house would be considered affordable to a middle class UK resident?
To give you a little perspective, I wouldn't swap my house for yours (based on value alone) and I live in a 2-bedroom mid-terrace with no garden and on-street parking.
Yes, a shoebox like that is worth more than £100K in the UK.
My better half (so she tells me) and I were discussing moving to the US after our most recent trip. We've seen a few bits of the country through work and play and apart from (please forgive the insult) overt Americanness* of certain aspects of the society we'd be pretty keen on moving. We'd both be significantly better off financially and could enjoy a higher standard of living - largely due to the cost of accomodation.
Unfortunately that benefit is reduced by the fact that we're city folk and would want to live in Manhattan or central in one of the other larger cities! No point in living in the 'burbs when I can do the same in London.
UK Plc is way overpriced unfortunately.
Other alternative would be to move to the aforementioned better-half's native land - Sweden. But their big cities barely rival a hamlet for size (although trounce our cities for amenities, infrastructure and cleanliness!). Don;t think I could cope with the cold though.
Iain
* an example of this would be a trip to Seaworld Orlando (since our last holiday in the US the Seaworld themeparks have been bought by Anhiser Busch) and the whole park experience had a thinkly veiled undertone of corporate brainwashing and unquestioning patriotism. Before the 'shamu show' there was a 5 minute video praising the servicemen of 'the US and her allies'. Something about it all really set my teeth on edge.
Unfortunately that benefit is reduced by the fact that we're city folk and would want to live in Manhattan or central in one of the other larger cities! No point in living in the 'burbs when I can do the same in London.
UK Plc is way overpriced unfortunately.
Other alternative would be to move to the aforementioned better-half's native land - Sweden. But their big cities barely rival a hamlet for size (although trounce our cities for amenities, infrastructure and cleanliness!). Don;t think I could cope with the cold though.
Iain
* an example of this would be a trip to Seaworld Orlando (since our last holiday in the US the Seaworld themeparks have been bought by Anhiser Busch) and the whole park experience had a thinkly veiled undertone of corporate brainwashing and unquestioning patriotism. Before the 'shamu show' there was a 5 minute video praising the servicemen of 'the US and her allies'. Something about it all really set my teeth on edge.
Well, if you want a large house in this country, and you don't earn £100K per year minimum, the best thing to do if, first lose your job, get a woman who is good for only one thing, breeding like a rabbit, and hey presto, free house, bills paid for and an endless 'income' off the state if you do the research right, hell, get the kids to make sure they have plenty of ASBOs while you're at it, I'm sure there's a benefit that will accomodate the fact that you'll lie and say the kids have ADD, and need more money for extra help. When you have enough kids, the council will even knock the house next door through, so you have a veritable mansion, all for sweet FA! Job done! 
chris watton said:
Well, if you want a large house in this country, and you don't earn £100K per year minimum, the best thing to do if, first lose your job, get a woman who is good for only one thing, breeding like a rabbit, and hey presto, free house, bills paid for and an endless 'income' off the state if you do the research right, hell, get the kids to make sure they have plenty of ASBOs while you're at it, I'm sure there's a benefit that will accomodate the fact that you'll lie and say the kids have ADD, and need more money for extra help. When you have enough kids, the council will even knock the house next door through, so you have a veritable mansion, all for sweet FA! Job done!
Don't forget that by the time the kids leave home you will have lived there for long enough to qualify to buy the house at a vastly reduced price. So you get a job, remember it's the kids with the ASBO's, work for 4-5 years, sell house, retire to Costa Del Crime.
minicity said:
The stange thing is that the incredibly high cost of homes in the UK is generally regarded as a "good" thing. Why? I own one and I've no idea.
I agree. People seem to get drawn in by the whole idea of being well off because of what their house is worth. A perception of being wealthy. Unless they are happy to sell up and live in a caravan, the value is irrelevant. Unless you are moving down the property ladder and downsizing, every % increase you make on your current place is widening the gap in ££s between your current place and your next move. Best thing I could have happen as a property owner is a house price crash, so long as interest rates remain static.
minicity said:
The stange thing is that the incredibly high cost of homes in the UK is generally regarded as a "good" thing. Why? I own one and I've no idea.
odd isn't it. Inflation in the price of any other 'cost of living' item is regarded as being a bad thing. But with house prices it's 'hooray', house prices are now so high that young people can't afford to start a family, great news for the economy, especially in the longer term.
Jaglover said:
As one poster has said class is not merely determined by income in the UK.
As for what income is needed for a middle class 'lifestlye' it often depends on your age. If you bought before the great house price inflation (say in the mid 1970s) then one income of £30K might be sufficient.
For the young it would take a dual income of at least £60K.
I'm not sure I agree with this. I didn't earn particularly big money when I bought a place. In fact, I still don't earn particularly big money. And although I did buy my first place about 5 - 6 years ago, I have a 3 bed place worth around £200k. Thats on one income.
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff