support Rover, with the help of Greenpeace

[apache]

Go here

http://act.greenpeace.org/ams/e?a=1640&s=gen

delete the greenpeace drivel and say something encouraging

[mybrainhurts]

Are you sure your own text will go.....?

Here's the Greenpeas guff.....

I am writing to urge Ford to take immediate action to meet the challenge of climate change and produce more fuel-efficient vehicles.

You have said that you believe it is time to take appropriate action on climate change, yet your company has worked to prevent measures that would help tackle climate change and blocked the advancement of more climate-friendly technologies. But Ford is still making gas-guzzling vehicles like Land Rovers which are wrecking the climate.

Don’t you think the time for talk is over? It is time to take responsibility for the damage we are all doing to our climate and you can lead the way in the motor industry to meet that challenge.

You are running vehicles off the assembly line that have worse fuel efficiency than the Model T. It is time to put your money and expertise into the innovation that built Ford by improving fuel efficiency for all your vehicles. Making fuel-efficient vehicles is a legacy you could truly be proud of. At the same time Ford must stop standing in the way of government action on climate change and let the people have their voices heard.

[Nicol@]

Not much wrong with that.

Maybe Ford could build a fuel efficient fast car?

[apache]

try it

[dieseljohn]

Do the greenies not realise that one of the reasons cars are becoming less fuel efficient is all of the emissions reducing stuff? Catalysts, low diesel compression ratios etc etc.

[Parrot of Doom]

I don't think cars are becoming less fuel efficient because of that, I think its just lazy designers in the US who basically can't do their job. And possibly they're being bunged large sums of money to keep things that way, by the oilmen.

[dieseljohn]

Parrot of Doom said:

I don't think cars are becoming less fuel efficient because of that, I think its just lazy designers in the US who basically can't do their job. And possibly they're being bunged large sums of money to keep things that way, by the oilmen.

Well, the main problem is people wanting bigger engines but cat's and things don't help. Your average diesel engine in 5-10 years is not going to be as fuel efficient as they are now, I can guarantee that.

[turbobloke]

Relax. Humans didn't disappear during the bronze age because they ran out of bronze, something better came along.

[tallbloke]

And we'll never run out of steam. Mega torque from zero revs!!

[scorp]

turbobloke said:

Relax. Humans didn't disappear during the bronze age because they ran out of bronze, something better came along.

Oil is somewhat more important to our lives than bronze was to the bronze age people. How can we maintain our heavily mechanised farming industry without oil for instance?

[turbobloke]

scorp said:

turbobloke said: Relax. Humans didn't disappear during the bronze age because they ran out of bronze, something better came along. Oil is somewhat more important to our lives than bronze was to the bronze age people. How can we maintain our heavily mechanised farming industry without oil for instance?

Just about any chemical made from oil can be made from something else, and will be when the economics are right.

[deltafox]

Im afraid i DID send this said:

Dear Sir, I am writing to urge Ford to take immediate action to ignore the continual slagging of its products by the ignorant and unwashed "greenslime" known to comprise the members of "greenpeace". Motorists such as myself understand the need for the vehicles Ford Motor Company produce, not only that we endorse your production of them. After all, its supposed to be a free country (but not in the UK due to pressure groups like "GreenPiece" ) and we should be able to drive whatever the heck we want to. Please feel free to mow as many of these losers down as you can, as theyre the biggest CO2 and methane producers of the lot. Yours with respect, Mr X.

>> Edited by deltafox on Friday 6th January 19:07

[sadako]

scorp said:

turbobloke said: Relax. Humans didn't disappear during the bronze age because they ran out of bronze, something better came along. Oil is somewhat more important to our lives than bronze was to the bronze age people. How can we maintain our heavily mechanised farming industry without oil for instance?

Ask them.

[Buffalo]

A land rover does more miles to the gallon than any of the yank tank v8s..! What sort of an arguement is that anyway..?

[Buffalo]

turbobloke said:

Just about any chemical made from oil can be made from something else, and will be when the economics are right.

I dunno - how do you make the chemical..? It has to come from *something* and that something is usually a petroleum based product even if it isn't what you would otherwise call oil...

The only two ways you can have something is this world is to mine it or farm it. Isn't it..? Even fabricated "man-made" things come from something natural...

[C C]

What are these @rsholes on?

I’ve been zipping around in a little Fester all week. Not my cup of tea but I think it's a fair bet that Ford sells more small and medium hatches in the UK than Range Rovers. If they never sold another one what differences would it make?...

[turbobloke]

Buffalo said:

turbobloke said: Just about any chemical made from oil can be made from something else, and will be when the economics are right. I dunno - how do you make the chemical..? It has to come from *something* and that something is usually a petroleum based product even if it isn't what you would otherwise call oil... The only two ways you can have something is this world is to mine it or farm it. Isn't it..? Even fabricated "man-made" things come from something natural...

Mine it, farm it...or make it from simpler bits you got by one of those routes. Products derived from crude oil are mostly hydrocarbons, sometimes there may be a flashy atom or two like oxygen, nitrogen or sulphur or whatever, but that's nothing a good organic chemist couldn't take in their stride. There are lots of sources of starting materials out there, often the convenience factor would be lower so the price would be higher, but like I said that's the economics bit. To take an extreme position, you would need a source of carbon which could be a mineral carbonate or biogas, plus water and other simple building blocks. More realistically you could start from something that could broken down and then re-built how you like, such as the oily and rubbery organics available from plants and trees.

Someone made the valid point earlier about everyday chemicals such as plastics, which is where the above analysis comes in, by comparison fuels would be a piece of cake as there are alternatives to hydrocarbons that needn't ever run out such as alcohols.

[apache]

Rape seed would be a good place to start