Pakistan Disaster ,knock on effect :(
Discussion
The past couple of nights ive been watching the report of these poor villagers stuck in mountains with their children in tents, victims of the earthquake disaster and now battling the severe winter.
They are using summer tents and huddle under damp blankets with the bare minimum of supplies and no medical help,most of the poor little kids have terrible coughs and some have pneumonia.
I didnt realise they were in such a dire situation and it makes me feel bloody guilty about sitting here in my centraly heated house,there are children dieing of the cold in these snow covered villages.
Question...in this day and age why the hell cant we rescue them from the mountains?
They are using summer tents and huddle under damp blankets with the bare minimum of supplies and no medical help,most of the poor little kids have terrible coughs and some have pneumonia.
I didnt realise they were in such a dire situation and it makes me feel bloody guilty about sitting here in my centraly heated house,there are children dieing of the cold in these snow covered villages.
Question...in this day and age why the hell cant we rescue them from the mountains?
ZR1cliff said:
The past couple of nights ive been watching the report of these poor villagers stuck in mountains with their children in tents, victims of the earthquake disaster and now battling the severe winter.
They are using summer tents and huddle under damp blankets with the bare minimum of supplies and no medical help,most of the poor little kids have terrible coughs and some have pneumonia.
I didnt realise they were in such a dire situation and it makes me feel bloody guilty about sitting here in my centraly heated house,there are children dieing of the cold in these snow covered villages.
Question...in this day and age why the hell cant we rescue them from the mountains?
It is indeed tragic, but having been to that area, I can tell you that it is very inaccessible, by road or air. Weather conditions can turn, suddenly, and make travel perilous. Unfortunately, though, one of the reasons for the ongoing suffering is the lack of aid and effort by the international community in a disaster, which isn't 'fashionable'
The scale of the disaster in this area is unprecedented, and is just worsening by the day. The Pakistani government is struggling to get even the most basic of supplies to the area, and is struggling to make foreign governments honour their pledges for aid.
When the helicopters turn up they are often over run and the pilots have to abondon ship so to speak! They dont help themselves. Why are they having problems anyway? There was an earthquake, so what. Most of them live in accomadation that can be built in a matter of hours so why didnt they just pick up the sticks and plastic sheeting and rebuild, its not as if they have anything else to do all day.
Tristar said:
When the helicopters turn up they are often over run and the pilots have to abondon ship so to speak! They dont help themselves. Why are they having problems anyway? There was an earthquake, so what. Most of them live in accomadation that can be built in a matter of hours so why didnt they just pick up the sticks and plastic sheeting and rebuild, its not as if they have anything else to do all day.
I think someone else made this comment, but your heart quite obviously, pumps piss.
For a start, a large number of people are seriously injured, and have become seriously ill due to total destruction of sanitation facilities, and lack of medical staff in the area.
That's a bit harsh tristar. Their houses were made of stone or brick, but have been completely destroyed and it is impossible to rehouse 3 million people ina matter of weeks or months. They have now got no where to store their food that would have been harvested this summer, and so they are now totally reliant on aid. I doubt very much you would be up to doing much if your house had been knocked over, half your family had been killed, you had no food and it was -15C on a sunny winter's day in the foothills of the Himalayas.
On an aside, I noted a while ago that the country with the LEAST generous donations, both from the public and gvt was that bastion of peace & Love between all men, France...
Edited four spallin mustooks
>> Edited by diddyman on Tuesday 17th January 19:03
>> Edited by diddyman on Tuesday 17th January 19:04
On an aside, I noted a while ago that the country with the LEAST generous donations, both from the public and gvt was that bastion of peace & Love between all men, France...
Edited four spallin mustooks
>> Edited by diddyman on Tuesday 17th January 19:03
>> Edited by diddyman on Tuesday 17th January 19:04
diddyman said:
That's a bit harsh tristar. Their houses were made of stone or brick, but have been completely destroyed and it is impossible to rehouse 3 million people ina matter of weeks or months. They have now got no where to store their food that would have been harvested this summer, and so they are now totally reliant on aid. I doubt very much you would be up to doing much if your house had been knocked over, half your family had been killed, you had no food and it was -15C on a sunny winter's day in the foothills of the Himalayas.
I think you will find that the british have a history of coming through for each other after major disasters and wars and always find a way to rebuild and survive another day without aid or help from the rest of the world.
Tristar said:
When the helicopters turn up they are often over run and the pilots have to abondon ship so to speak! They dont help themselves. Why are they having problems anyway? There was an earthquake, so what. Most of them live in accomadation that can be built in a matter of hours so why didnt they just pick up the sticks and plastic sheeting and rebuild, its not as if they have anything else to do all day.
They look like beaten people and in some case there are ten year old girls looking after their families because their parents have died in the earthquake,they are desperate people and need help maybe just some begining to give them a push.
They stay huddled up because it is so cold ,up to -10 in some places,its a shame some rescue parties couldnt get to them to give them the nessacary helpthey need.
Tristar said:
That's a bit harsh tristar. Their houses were made of stone or brick, but have been completely destroyed and it is impossible to rehouse 3 million people ina matter of weeks or months. They have now got no where to store their food that would have been harvested this summer, and so they are now totally reliant on aid. I doubt very much you would be up to doing much if your house had been knocked over, half your family had been killed, you had no food and it was -15C on a sunny winter's day in the foothills of the Himalayas.
I think you will find that the british have a history of coming through for each other after major disasters and wars and always find a way to rebuild and survive another day without aid or help from the rest of the world.
Eh? They're not British, they're Pakistanis. These people were desparately poor in the first place, and live on some of the most remote and inhospitable land on the planet.
You seen them on the news? Their are little kids of 5 and 6 with NO shoes walking around in the snow and ice. You got kids? How would you like it if that was happening to YOUR children...?
>> Edited by diddyman on Tuesday 17th January 19:12
Tristar said:
When the helicopters turn up they are often over run and the pilots have to abondon ship so to speak! They dont help themselves. Why are they having problems anyway? There was an earthquake, so what. Most of them live in accomadation that can be built in a matter of hours so why didnt they just pick up the sticks and plastic sheeting and rebuild, its not as if they have anything else to do all day.
There may have been instances where that has happened to rescue helicopters (I don't know), but the rest of your post is cr*p. If homes and fuel and food stores have been destroyed they require outside assistance in order to survive. Perhaps the Pakistani authorities could be doing better, but many of these areas are remote. Try and show a little compassion.
I have to agree with Tristar here, niether the local government (such as it is out there ) nor the people are doing much to help themselves. Not only is the region incredibly remote, but it's also totally corrupt. The pakistani Government would rather see their people die than allow Indian troops in to help immediately, as was offered, and as such, there's very little you can do for people in that position.
The people who live there have done for generations but have had proper buildings for two generations and totally lost the skills of their forefathers required to live in such a place, so evacuation of the area is the only sustainable solution IMO, but the people don;t want to move, they just want aid, so they can carry on untill next time.
The people who live there have done for generations but have had proper buildings for two generations and totally lost the skills of their forefathers required to live in such a place, so evacuation of the area is the only sustainable solution IMO, but the people don;t want to move, they just want aid, so they can carry on untill next time.
mattley said:
I have to agree with Tristar here, niether the local government (such as it is out there ) nor the people are doing much to help themselves. Not only is the region incredibly remote, but it's also totally corrupt. The pakistani Government would rather see their people die than allow Indian troops in to help immediately, as was offered, and as such, there's very little you can do for people in that position.
The people who live there have done for generations but have had proper buildings for two generations and totally lost the skills of their forefathers required to live in such a place, so evacuation of the area is the only sustainable solution IMO, but the people don;t want to move, they just want aid, so they can carry on untill next time.
Yeah but if they try and move somewhere else then the people there will just complain about them moving in. Would you like it if they all moved in next door to you? People are happy to suggest they move, but thats only as long as they dont move in to their area.
You're right about the Indian troops not being allowed in though, petty politics and egos once again causing more death and misery than is necessary. People waffle on about religion and so on being the problem but I suspect pride and egos (from individual up to national level) cause quite a few problems if not more really.
mattley said:
I have to agree with Tristar here, niether the local government (such as it is out there ) nor the people are doing much to help themselves.
Oh really, how's that then? Is it because it's -15C over there, and they are starved, ill or injured? Oh, no obviously they're just lazy and corrupt.
mattley said:
Not only is the region incredibly remote, but it's also totally corrupt. The pakistani Government would rather see their people die than allow Indian troops in to help immediately, as was offered, and as such, there's very little you can do for people in that position.
That's not true at all. Understandably, the govt were circumspect about the Indian army moving into territory that 4 wars have been fought over. There's a great deal that can be done for those people, for a start, actually delivering the aid that has been promised, rather than doing what has happened so far, ie make big platitudes and condolensces, not backed up by any action.
mattley said:
The people who live there have done for generations but have had proper buildings for two generations and totally lost the skills of their forefathers required to live in such a place, so evacuation of the area is the only sustainable solution IMO, but the people don;t want to move, they just want aid, so they can carry on untill next time.
And how have you made this mass skills assessment of a few million people then? You've gone out there and surveyed them have you? I tell you what, let's evacuate all flood plains in the UK and move them to other over crowded areas, because, let's face it, if minor disaster strikes here, our emergency services fall to pieces. Let's imagine now there's one of the most powerful earthquakes in history, in one of the most remote areas of the country, how do you think we'd cope, even with our, allegedly non-corrupt govt?
968 said:
The past couple of nights ive been watching the report of these poor villagers stuck in mountains with their children in tents, victims of the earthquake disaster and now battling the severe winter.
They are using summer tents and huddle under damp blankets with the bare minimum of supplies and no medical help,most of the poor little kids have terrible coughs and some have pneumonia.
I didnt realise they were in such a dire situation and it makes me feel bloody guilty about sitting here in my centraly heated house,there are children dieing of the cold in these snow covered villages.
Question...in this day and age why the hell cant we rescue them from the mountains?
It is indeed tragic, but having been to that area, I can tell you that it is very inaccessible, by road or air. Weather conditions can turn, suddenly, and make travel perilous. Unfortunately, though, one of the reasons for the ongoing suffering is the lack of aid and effort by the international community in a disaster, which isn't 'fashionable'
The scale of the disaster in this area is unprecedented, and is just worsening by the day. The Pakistani government is struggling to get even the most basic of supplies to the area, and is struggling to make foreign governments honour their pledges for aid.
Is aid really not forthcoming from those that promised it?
I would imagine that the main issue is transport th the hard to get to remote places..
Im sure the Americans have been very active with helicopters in the region, though feeding 3 million with 20 helicopters is a bit difficult
Tristar said:
When the helicopters turn up they are often over run and the pilots have to abondon ship so to speak! They dont help themselves. Why are they having problems anyway? There was an earthquake, so what. Most of them live in accomadation that can be built in a matter of hours so why didnt they just pick up the sticks and plastic sheeting and rebuild, its not as if they have anything else to do all day.
WHAT?? That sounds similar to a serious question someone asked my Dad when he came here from Pakistan in the early 60s. 'What type of trees to do you live in back home?' Sticks and plastic sheeting?? I don't think so! Most of the homes are brick or cement made, and usually as solid as those in the UK and lot stronger than those in the US. No. 1 they do no have the building resources to rebuild the properties, No. 2 the sites have not been cleared of rubble, No. 3 it takes weeks if not months to build each house. No. 4 People are desperate and people have to stay in the area to look after their property and land. Our family sent a couple of tents and money to rebuild a home to the family's cook that lived in the region, (he lost his 13yr old daughter). As soon as the Tents got there, a bunch of guys came to the family and said that they were too nice for his family and took them and some of the money as well. We had to send some more, and my Bro-in-law had to stay until they were fully errected and they were settled. We suggested that the Cook bring his family back to my in-laws family home in Islamabad, but he refused saying that his family's land would be taken as well, and he could never afford to buy more. So, he is staying there and the family are planning to send him smaller amounts of money on a regular basis when his land is ready to start building on
mattley said:
I have to agree with Tristar here, niether the local government (such as it is out there ) nor the people are doing much to help themselves. Not only is the region incredibly remote, but it's also totally corrupt. The pakistani Government would rather see their people die than allow Indian troops in to help immediately, as was offered, and as such, there's very little you can do for people in that position.
The people who live there have done for generations but have had proper buildings for two generations and totally lost the skills of their forefathers required to live in such a place, so evacuation of the area is the only sustainable solution IMO, but the people don;t want to move, they just want aid, so they can carry on untill next time.
It not exactly flat south east england countryside, with good infrastructure you know, it the foothills of the himalyasa, higher altitude, bad weather, roads (if you can call them that impassable, bridges out, in an area bigger than the uk, pretty much on the egde of thing anyway, not enough helicopter in the world could cope with the needs. LOOK at how New orelans has failed to cope, and that is a much more manageable diasater, the the most developed country in the world.
rich1231 said:
Is aid really not forthcoming from those that promised it?
I would imagine that the main issue is transport th the hard to get to remote places..
Im sure the Americans have been very active with helicopters in the region, though feeding 3 million with 20 helicopters is a bit difficult
Sadly, only a fraction of the aid promised has arrived, even in the country, let alone in the region. You are right, the remote nature of the area is making the effort even harder, the Americans did lend the use of some helicopters, after a bit of negotiation, but apart from Britain, few other countries have donated use of any helicopters. The other thing required is civil engineering to help build roads, in treacherous conditions to reach those areas. Problem is a lot of the mountainsides have been deforested by villagers felling trees to provide an income from the materials, these means there are a lot of landslides.
diddyman said:
It's not their fault the gvt won't accept assistance from outside.
Huh? The Pakistani government is happy to accept assistance from virtually everywhere.
I think the only things they refused were the Indian Helicoptor pilots (they were happy for a loan of the Helicoptors, and said they have plenty of their own pilots to fly them), and I think they declined assistance of people from Israel IIRC - Hardly refusing outside aid.
968 said:
Is aid really not forthcoming from those that promised it?
I would imagine that the main issue is transport th the hard to get to remote places..
Im sure the Americans have been very active with helicopters in the region, though feeding 3 million with 20 helicopters is a bit difficult
Sadly, only a fraction of the aid promised has arrived, even in the country, let alone in the region. You are right, the remote nature of the area is making the effort even harder, the Americans did lend the use of some helicopters, after a bit of negotiation, but apart from Britain, few other countries have donated use of any helicopters. The other thing required is civil engineering to help build roads, in treacherous conditions to reach those areas. Problem is a lot of the mountainsides have been deforested by villagers felling trees to provide an income from the materials, these means there are a lot of landslides.
then it isnt reported widely enough...
Poor buggers
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