So what exactly is so bad about churchgoing?
Discussion
Yugguy said:
You know you don't actually have to be a creationist to attend church, there's no entrance exam. Many are but so what, what harm does this belief do to any of you people who start foaming at the mouth about it regularly?
We've started to go to church again. Call me a brainwasher if you must but I want my little girl to be exposed to some good moral examples and education, something you don't get at schools anymore. I won't force her and when she is old enough to make up her own mind then that's what I'll let her do. I'll tell what I believe about evolution (unproved) and the universe (billions of years old) and all the other questions she has and I'll point her to where she can look at the evidence for herself and I'll love her just the same whatever she decides to do.
But I tell you, going to church, it's hard work. First time we went, blimey, the people, friendly and helpful, and the young kids, what a nightmare, they were happy, smiling, polite, noisy, joyful. Someone should really put a stop to that as we wouldn't want them walking our streets NOT happy-slapping people to death now would we?
Churchgoers tend not to commit crime, their kids tend not to hang around the Co-op drinking White Lightning and abusing passers-by, yet you lot riducule and castigate them on a daily basis. I don't really understand it.
no offense, but i dont go to church, never have and never will....and my kids don't happy slap, hang around outside CO-OPs etc etc.....church has NOTHING to do with what is happening in society.........
you seem to bve almost claiming that if we all go to church that we will all live in some mythical land of 'milk and honey'?............sorry I dont agree......
rich1231 said:
maybe because they generally feel the need to push their opinions onto others?
What he said. Do what you want, go to church if you feel you need to be instructed on how to live
. Fair play to you, but no point trying to convince others really. I've always looked at religion as a kind of "crutch" (medical kind) that some people need to get through life.
I dont need it, I was brought up properly (i think) and have a mind of my own I like to form about things and my opinions are my own and not influenced by what others tell me to think. But fair play if others do need to be told.
Knock yourself out and have fun
.
Interesting observations and not too far from my recent thinking too.
Having been brought up in Catholic Ireland in the 1960s and 1970s, I experienced a very large dose of self-righteous, bioted and dogmatic church atitudes which really put me off the whole thing for decades. I am also a staunch supporter of science and the scientific method and have no truck with Christian Fundamentalism and its theories (especially those associated with mega-millionaire American preachers).
However, despite all that, I have never lost a sense of spirituality and purpose behind the way the world, the universe and people operate. With these factors in mind, I have decided to explore again the whole Christian ethos and, if necessary, bypass standard organised church thinking to form my own comclusions about the relevance of Jesus and his teachings to me.
I look on it as a new voyage of discovery. I will let you know my conclusions if I ever come to any.
Having been brought up in Catholic Ireland in the 1960s and 1970s, I experienced a very large dose of self-righteous, bioted and dogmatic church atitudes which really put me off the whole thing for decades. I am also a staunch supporter of science and the scientific method and have no truck with Christian Fundamentalism and its theories (especially those associated with mega-millionaire American preachers).
However, despite all that, I have never lost a sense of spirituality and purpose behind the way the world, the universe and people operate. With these factors in mind, I have decided to explore again the whole Christian ethos and, if necessary, bypass standard organised church thinking to form my own comclusions about the relevance of Jesus and his teachings to me.
I look on it as a new voyage of discovery. I will let you know my conclusions if I ever come to any.
Yugguy said:
So noone thinks that the decline of churchgoing and the general liberalising of values and the lowering of standards of behaviour in children are perhaps related?
Plainly you do; but I was never a churchgoer, and my father's opinions of the church are perhaps best not aired here. However I think I'm a fairly decent member of the community, so plainly churchgoing is not necessary for people not to grow up as antisocial thugs.
Yugguy said:
Call me a brainwasher if you must but I want my little girl to be exposed to some good moral examples and education, something you don't get at schools anymore.
Why can't you just teach her yourself, at home? You don't have to go to church to be moral and a good example to others. Actually, you don't even have to be Christian.
I had a chat with 2 young lads last night, one is about 16 ther other 20.
They both come from strongly religious family.
They both "know" without fail that any non worshiper is going to hell and have extreme bigotted opinions about almost everything based upon something they have been taught.
They also have prepared answers for all sorts of question about their faith.
In my opinion the kids have been abused by their family in allowing this to happen.
They both come from strongly religious family.
They both "know" without fail that any non worshiper is going to hell and have extreme bigotted opinions about almost everything based upon something they have been taught.
They also have prepared answers for all sorts of question about their faith.
In my opinion the kids have been abused by their family in allowing this to happen.
Yugguy said:
So noone thinks that the decline of churchgoing, the general liberalising of values and the lowering of standards of behaviour in children are perhaps related?
Because something's gone wrong. Kids today are far more disrespectful than I was as a child in the 70s, and I did grow up on a rough council estate. People are more violent with it seems no sense of restraint or empathy for their victims.
I think you'll find its down to global warming.
(that is the standard excuse this decade isn't it?)
>> Edited by tinman0 on Thursday 26th January 11:04
Yugguy said:
So noone thinks that the decline of churchgoing, the general liberalising of values and the lowering of standards of behaviour in children are perhaps related?
>> Edited by Yugguy on Thursday 26th January 10:59
This lot think its all to do with the current govt and abolishing of capital punishment. Bring back the Tories and all society's problems will disappear. You'll be lucky to find a spiritual bone in any of them.
Yugguy said:
So noone thinks that the decline of churchgoing, the general liberalising of values and the lowering of standards of behaviour in children are perhaps related?
Not directly, I think the decline in religious belief has ended the social stigma of unmarried mothers which has led to many social problems.
I think you should be applauded for the sacrifice you are making for your child.
Yugguy said:
So noone thinks that the decline of churchgoing, the general liberalising of values and the lowering of standards of behaviour in children are perhaps related?
>> Edited by Yugguy on Thursday 26th January 10:59
Basically NO.
Thats down to parents not being allowed to discipline thier kids these days due to our governments political correctness gone mad
. Kids then run amok knowing they cant be touched and parents sit back and do nothing. Bring back national service. That did more for good behaviour than Church
Eh, what is the point of the post Yugguy? Who are you pointing the statement towards?
Fair enough if you want your kids to learn good morals, but a church doesn't just have good morals, ultimately it's the parents.
I grew up out in the sticks, and went to a small school (40 pupils overall) until the age of 11/12 where I went to one with 1500 pupils.
I had friends that did stupid things, we did the things teenagers do like knock and run etc, but I ALWAYS hold the door for people, say please and thankyou to strangers, give way to people and make time for them, am honest and tell the truth, and do the best I can by everyone I know or meet. I do everything your supposed "bastion of morals" does, but I do it without having to follow the idea that someone created the universe and everything we see. I do it for myself and for good relations and a happy feeling of self worth, not to satisfy a "god" or the community of church goers I now meet with. I do it for ME!
I think it's narrow minded to think that to have morals you need to attend church. Infact that thought offends me, because it's saying you are better than other people!
Get a grip.
Most kids who are problems are like that because their parents are useless and don't give a crap. Religion might focus them, but so would a stint in the army doing hard graft.
Truth is we are what we make of ourselves. If society allows these little evil critters to develop, then it is societies fault for not stopping it. However, since we can't stop them by law, and require "the law" to stop them for us, which it isn't, then infact it's the governments fault.
If you really want to do something for your kids, find some like minded parents who you get along with, and go do something together in that same time. There are good normal people out there, everywhere, you are just seeing the worst and assuming the worst.
Infact if you were a christian at all you'd forgive those with no morals and try and help them, not seperate yourself from them!
Sounds like you don't know what you want.
Dave
Fair enough if you want your kids to learn good morals, but a church doesn't just have good morals, ultimately it's the parents.
I grew up out in the sticks, and went to a small school (40 pupils overall) until the age of 11/12 where I went to one with 1500 pupils.
I had friends that did stupid things, we did the things teenagers do like knock and run etc, but I ALWAYS hold the door for people, say please and thankyou to strangers, give way to people and make time for them, am honest and tell the truth, and do the best I can by everyone I know or meet. I do everything your supposed "bastion of morals" does, but I do it without having to follow the idea that someone created the universe and everything we see. I do it for myself and for good relations and a happy feeling of self worth, not to satisfy a "god" or the community of church goers I now meet with. I do it for ME!
I think it's narrow minded to think that to have morals you need to attend church. Infact that thought offends me, because it's saying you are better than other people!
Get a grip.
Most kids who are problems are like that because their parents are useless and don't give a crap. Religion might focus them, but so would a stint in the army doing hard graft.
Truth is we are what we make of ourselves. If society allows these little evil critters to develop, then it is societies fault for not stopping it. However, since we can't stop them by law, and require "the law" to stop them for us, which it isn't, then infact it's the governments fault.
If you really want to do something for your kids, find some like minded parents who you get along with, and go do something together in that same time. There are good normal people out there, everywhere, you are just seeing the worst and assuming the worst.
Infact if you were a christian at all you'd forgive those with no morals and try and help them, not seperate yourself from them!
Sounds like you don't know what you want.
Dave
rich1231 said:
I had a chat with 2 young lads last night, one is about 16 ther other 20.
They both come from strongly religious family.
They both "know" without fail that any non worshiper is going to hell and have extreme bigotted opinions about almost everything based upon something they have been taught.
They also have prepared answers for all sorts of question about their faith.
In my opinion the kids have been abused by their family in allowing this to happen.
There is a difference between fundamentalist christian beliefs and going to church every sunday.
Yep. I know this from growing up in a fundamentalist sect (almost a cult), the Worldwide Church of God, which had similar views. Once old enough I was able to question what I had been taught and take the good parts from it.
But the church we go to now, our local CofE, is not like this, it's more of a inclusive family whose only core, necessary belief is of Jesus being the son of God who died for our sins, outside that they don't really care if you're a creationist or evolutionist.
But the church we go to now, our local CofE, is not like this, it's more of a inclusive family whose only core, necessary belief is of Jesus being the son of God who died for our sins, outside that they don't really care if you're a creationist or evolutionist.
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