Cohabiting Couple, Children and Cash
Discussion
Here’s a rough outline of the circumstances a mate of mine is in. He met a woman six years ago, to cut a long story short, a month into the relationship she tells him she’s pregnant. She had told him she was on the pill, turns out she had stopped it a month earlier. An abortion isn’t an option so he does the dutiful thing and stands by her; they now have a five-year-old child. The relationship is to say the least a little rocky, these people are strangers only together by circumstances. However, he is determined to be around for his child so endeavours to make the best of the situation. Fast forward to this year and she calls him at work to say she’s pregnant again. Having another child was never discussed and once again she’d said she had taken care of contraception, abortion is again out of the question. According to him, they’d had sex less than 5 times last year, on reflection it seems she had been working out the dates of when she was most likely to conceive. Now she’s pregnant all physical contact has ceased again.
From the point of view of a casual observer this woman has trapped him, she’s said openly that she doesn’t love him, she doesn’t do anything to make his life pleasant, if anything she talks of a future with ‘her’ kids and he doesn’t seem to be the picture. He’s seems to be nothing other than a provider for her. Having read some of the bumph about family law it would appear that she has him well and truly over a barrel.
Finances
He earns ~£120k, she earns ~£30k, due to the earning disparity she contributes nothing at all to the running costs of the house or school fees and never has done. They have one joint bank account that is used for housekeeping; he puts all the money into it. Two years into the relationship they bought a house together, each contributing the same amount as a deposit, they’ve recently moved and the equity from the initial purchase has been rolled into the new house, again he’s paying all the running costs and the mortgage from his account. The property needs extensive renovation, the costs of which he's covering entirely.
She has accrued debts of ~£20k in the last two years, in her name only. He gave her £6k to clear off a high interest credit card, instead she traded-up to a newer car.
He has a cash lump sum that he’d like to invest in another house or holiday home. However he wants to protect this money from her as she doesn’t know it exists at the moment.
In the event they separate how much of a claim to the primary residence could she make? In addition, could she claim a share of any investment property and/or his pension? Are there any steps he can take to protect his investment?
Children
He’s discussed a parental responsibility agreement with her but she’s unwilling to sign one. He wants to take responsibility for the children and this is the only reason he’s still with her.
Noting that she’d have two kids and a large debt to repay, the CSA are likely to make him pay maintenance aren’t they, even though she has full legal responsibility for the children?
Lifestyle
She’s taking liberties at work, not turning up, going in late, missing deadlines etc etc. He suspects that she’s trying to get dismissed so she can stay at home. She’s already said that she doesn’t think she should have to work once the second child is born.
Since the first child was born she has worked part time, and is now reducing these hours further. She does close to nothing at home other than to cook a meal for herself and the child. Frequently she’ll spend all evening watching TV and on the days she doesn’t work frequently won’t bother getting out of bed at all. Earlier this week he arrived home after 15 hours at work to find five year old in the lounge watching TV at 10pm, homework not done, child still in school uniform. Child had been left with the TV as a babysitter all evening, his partner was lounging in the bath with a book. She seems to be deliberately trying to push him to extremes, when he talks to her about this she simply stares back and shrugs her shoulders. He’s making huge allowances for the fact that she’s 5 months pregnant, but the reality is that she’s always been the same way.
Deep down he wants out, but the child(ren) are keeping him there. The nature of the job he does means his working pattern is erratic, so co-parenting would demand that his partner is co-operative about access.
Is there anything this bloke can do to a) make sure he can still see his kids b) protect himself financially? Can any of you comment on the law and the likely outcome if he decides to walk away.
Cheers.
>> Edited by Regular Poster on Friday 3rd February 10:08
From the point of view of a casual observer this woman has trapped him, she’s said openly that she doesn’t love him, she doesn’t do anything to make his life pleasant, if anything she talks of a future with ‘her’ kids and he doesn’t seem to be the picture. He’s seems to be nothing other than a provider for her. Having read some of the bumph about family law it would appear that she has him well and truly over a barrel.
Finances
He earns ~£120k, she earns ~£30k, due to the earning disparity she contributes nothing at all to the running costs of the house or school fees and never has done. They have one joint bank account that is used for housekeeping; he puts all the money into it. Two years into the relationship they bought a house together, each contributing the same amount as a deposit, they’ve recently moved and the equity from the initial purchase has been rolled into the new house, again he’s paying all the running costs and the mortgage from his account. The property needs extensive renovation, the costs of which he's covering entirely.
She has accrued debts of ~£20k in the last two years, in her name only. He gave her £6k to clear off a high interest credit card, instead she traded-up to a newer car.
He has a cash lump sum that he’d like to invest in another house or holiday home. However he wants to protect this money from her as she doesn’t know it exists at the moment.
In the event they separate how much of a claim to the primary residence could she make? In addition, could she claim a share of any investment property and/or his pension? Are there any steps he can take to protect his investment?
Children
He’s discussed a parental responsibility agreement with her but she’s unwilling to sign one. He wants to take responsibility for the children and this is the only reason he’s still with her.
Noting that she’d have two kids and a large debt to repay, the CSA are likely to make him pay maintenance aren’t they, even though she has full legal responsibility for the children?
Lifestyle
She’s taking liberties at work, not turning up, going in late, missing deadlines etc etc. He suspects that she’s trying to get dismissed so she can stay at home. She’s already said that she doesn’t think she should have to work once the second child is born.
Since the first child was born she has worked part time, and is now reducing these hours further. She does close to nothing at home other than to cook a meal for herself and the child. Frequently she’ll spend all evening watching TV and on the days she doesn’t work frequently won’t bother getting out of bed at all. Earlier this week he arrived home after 15 hours at work to find five year old in the lounge watching TV at 10pm, homework not done, child still in school uniform. Child had been left with the TV as a babysitter all evening, his partner was lounging in the bath with a book. She seems to be deliberately trying to push him to extremes, when he talks to her about this she simply stares back and shrugs her shoulders. He’s making huge allowances for the fact that she’s 5 months pregnant, but the reality is that she’s always been the same way.
Deep down he wants out, but the child(ren) are keeping him there. The nature of the job he does means his working pattern is erratic, so co-parenting would demand that his partner is co-operative about access.
Is there anything this bloke can do to a) make sure he can still see his kids b) protect himself financially? Can any of you comment on the law and the likely outcome if he decides to walk away.
Cheers.
>> Edited by Regular Poster on Friday 3rd February 10:08
Yugguy said:
Sounds like she's a golddigger, 30k a year should give her spare cash to put towards the house.
Bingo! She has never learned to be responsible with money, he says it is like having a teenager in the house. If there is money there she'll spend it, even the funds in the food account get used for clothes and shoes when her salary runs out.
This is the main reason he's so concerned about keeping his cash out of her reach. If she finds it, she'll want it.
>> Edited by Regular Poster on Friday 3rd February 10:18
One point that has just come to mind, it's about the house.
The mortgage I take it is in both names?
The joint account, should have statments saying where the deposits in the account have come from (ie either his account or salary), and will show where the money is going (lecky compnay, council, mortgage people etc) it will also show that she has not put any of the money into the account. The statements should also show wether or not she is contributing to this account.
The paper trail should go in his favour, as it shows he is the one that is paying for the house and all bills asscociated to it, so by rights, he could offer her a couple of grand and get her out of what is essentially his house.
This large sum of money that he has and she is as yet unaware of.... does he have a trusted member of the family with a dormant account it can go into? or even, he could open trust account type of thing in the child's name with him as sole signatory.
My ex husband had a redundancy payout before the divorce went through, he was pleading povety and said he couldn't pay for the kids, but was sat with this money in our joint account (we hadn't touched the account for ages, and he had the book), this only came to light when he was dying and I found the book, as it was a joint account the money became mine.
He wants to make sure that the joint account only has enough money in it each month to pay the monthly commitments, get the rest of his money in an account in his name...she can't touch his accounts.
Also, he is not responsible for debts soley in her name.
Other than knowing what I went through, I can't help any further.
The mortgage I take it is in both names?
The joint account, should have statments saying where the deposits in the account have come from (ie either his account or salary), and will show where the money is going (lecky compnay, council, mortgage people etc) it will also show that she has not put any of the money into the account. The statements should also show wether or not she is contributing to this account.
The paper trail should go in his favour, as it shows he is the one that is paying for the house and all bills asscociated to it, so by rights, he could offer her a couple of grand and get her out of what is essentially his house.
This large sum of money that he has and she is as yet unaware of.... does he have a trusted member of the family with a dormant account it can go into? or even, he could open trust account type of thing in the child's name with him as sole signatory.
My ex husband had a redundancy payout before the divorce went through, he was pleading povety and said he couldn't pay for the kids, but was sat with this money in our joint account (we hadn't touched the account for ages, and he had the book), this only came to light when he was dying and I found the book, as it was a joint account the money became mine.
He wants to make sure that the joint account only has enough money in it each month to pay the monthly commitments, get the rest of his money in an account in his name...she can't touch his accounts.
Also, he is not responsible for debts soley in her name.
Other than knowing what I went through, I can't help any further.
Bit of personal advice here then. Close the joint account. I had a joint account with an ex, and he went on a bender with it. It had all our savings in it and he blew the lot, and kept going as it became massively overdrawn. Fortunately I found him, but the bank said they had the right to keep topping it up from my personal account if I hadn't.
Tell him to give her cash each week for housekeeping, close the account and limit the amount she can leach off him.
Tell him to give her cash each week for housekeeping, close the account and limit the amount she can leach off him.
Having just read that she uses the food money as her personal piggy bank, maybe he wants to open an account in his name, then put money required for bills in there, and pay everything from there.
His account so she can't touch, but it also means that he is gonna have to do the shopping and such like.
It should stop her from getting her hands on it, and then he isn't topping up her spending when her own money runs out.
Also, she deserves a slap, and being told to grow up and take responsibility for herself, the children and her money.
His account so she can't touch, but it also means that he is gonna have to do the shopping and such like.
It should stop her from getting her hands on it, and then he isn't topping up her spending when her own money runs out.
Also, she deserves a slap, and being told to grow up and take responsibility for herself, the children and her money.
Sounds like this bloke needs to get his money into what I call the "Running Away Fund". Money you keep someplace where no-one knows where it is except you. It usually needs to be turned into cash along the way and then back into something else. There are plenty of ways to make money untraceable - or difficult to trace.
Are "his" parents still alive - they're always useful as people to "hold" money. And bank accounts don't need to be in the UK.
Its an insurance policy.
Then he needs to work out
1) If he's had enough and is going to leave
2) and then when he's going to leave.
Leaving just before your Mrs drops your sprog - however bad one may feel about the conception - is the action of a heel. Plans need formulating as to exactly when is the right time. The factors will be both financial and concerning the well being of the kids - and, to some extent, the soon-to-be-ex.
These plans also consist of getting a watertight, sound legal process ready in advance.
Sounds sinister. It is. But if he wants to walk away without emptying his bank account into hers its going to be necessary.
Of course. He could just turn the tables and do what would happen in reverse. Take the kids one night and leave for Australia with all the cash.
Are "his" parents still alive - they're always useful as people to "hold" money. And bank accounts don't need to be in the UK.
Its an insurance policy.
Then he needs to work out
1) If he's had enough and is going to leave
2) and then when he's going to leave.
Leaving just before your Mrs drops your sprog - however bad one may feel about the conception - is the action of a heel. Plans need formulating as to exactly when is the right time. The factors will be both financial and concerning the well being of the kids - and, to some extent, the soon-to-be-ex.
These plans also consist of getting a watertight, sound legal process ready in advance.
Sounds sinister. It is. But if he wants to walk away without emptying his bank account into hers its going to be necessary.
Of course. He could just turn the tables and do what would happen in reverse. Take the kids one night and leave for Australia with all the cash.
A truly shity situation to be in. He is not an idiot. The woman is devious. Sadly you will find that you have very little rights to the children if you leave. For advice you could try contacting Families Need Fathers - www.fnf.org.uk/. They are a nationwide charitable support group set up to offer advice and support to men who have very limited or no access to their children. They do some very good work and are not to be confused with the Batman group.
rich1231 said:
First thing he should do is pop out and buy an "idiot" badge, put it on so everyone can tell.
Sensitive as usual Auntie Rich
I think you should have a little sympathy for the chap, he didn't plan the pregnancy with this women and once she is pregnant she has a meal ticket whether he stays with her or not.
Don said:
Sounds like this bloke needs to get his money into what I call the "Running Away Fund". Money you keep someplace where no-one knows where it is except you. It usually needs to be turned into cash along the way and then back into something else. There are plenty of ways to make money untraceable - or difficult to trace.
Are "his" parents still alive - they're always useful as people to "hold" money. And bank accounts don't need to be in the UK.
Its an insurance policy.
Then he needs to work out
1) If he's had enough and is going to leave
2) and then when he's going to leave.
Oh and make a list of what you'll need to take, you'll look a right arse coming back to ask if you can pick up your passport and birth certificate wont you.
Also think about where you might fancy going, and what you'll do once you get there. As Don says international banking arrangements will make life alot easier. If there not in on the planning you might want to draft a few letters to parents, close relatives, close friends etc epxlaning what's going on to save alot of difficult intial phone calls.
.....and make sure you take you're car and have somewhere that you can SORN it and leave if off road.
Crumbs. 
that makes depressing reading.
Firstly, yes, £30k a year is not bad at all! That's more than I earn, and it is more than many of my completely self sufficient friends earn.
This woman is just completely out of order.
I think all that is obvious, and sadly I can't offer any advice, but I felt like I had to comment!
Please do keep us updated and post what happens if and when it does happen.
This situation needs to have something happen, ASAP.
that makes depressing reading. Firstly, yes, £30k a year is not bad at all! That's more than I earn, and it is more than many of my completely self sufficient friends earn.
This woman is just completely out of order.
I think all that is obvious, and sadly I can't offer any advice, but I felt like I had to comment!
Please do keep us updated and post what happens if and when it does happen.
This situation needs to have something happen, ASAP.
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